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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio now here's

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gene Stein a very special episode

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upcoming this week on the power cast

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we're gonna be featuring erich von

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daniken making his first appearance on

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the show we'll also be joined by David

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Halperin who was years and years ago I

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don't want to say centuries but years

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and years ago he's one of the original

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teeny apologists very close friend of

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mine and now he's a scholar David

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welcome back to the para cast OG Erich

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von däniken I have read and heard of

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your material for many many years

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we're glad to finally get you on the

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show and I think the most important

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thing we want to start with is when you

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first got started with Chariots of the

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Gods

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what got you interested in the

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possibility of ancient astronauts oh god

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that's a long story I tried to make it

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short I really have the time when you

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have him I was educated in Switzerland

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as a Catholic and of course as a young

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boy I was a deep believer in God by the

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way I still am a deep believer in God

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but as a boy God had to had to have some

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quality for example God makes no mistake

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or God does not need a vehicle in which

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to move from point A to point B God is

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all over

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etc now I was educated for six years in

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a Catholic boarding school where we have

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to make translations of the Bible's from

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the Greek to Latin and from Latin to

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German and while making these sensations

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I learned that the God of the Bible

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sometimes he makes mistakes and he

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definitely used this way because in

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which to move around from point A to

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point B for example in the second group

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of book of

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as you read before the Lord descent on

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the holy mountain

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he gives order to Moses that Moses who

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should construct a gate around the

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mountain so that the people would not

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come close by because the people would

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be destroyed so Moses construct the gate

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and the Lord descends with fire and

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smoke and trembling noise and the whole

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month looked like a firm age so I simply

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as a boy to translate these things I

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mean a boy seventeen years old I had to

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translate these things and I had doubts

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in my own religious education I wanted

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to know if other communities in

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antiquity have similar stories or if

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only we Christians and Jewish had these

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traditions and that was the beginning

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the doubts in religion was the beginning

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of Chariots of the Gods okay so if we're

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assuming here that the god depicted in

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the Bible is an imperfect being what

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does that make that person or individual

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well in the Bible he educates humans in

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the Bible he even takes some humans to

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some space to places for example there

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was the seventh Papiya the seventh after

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Adam

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his name was Enoch Enoch was the seven

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partners before the great club Enoch was

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taken up by the extraterrestrials or a

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so-called God into a mother spaceship of

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course the Bible does never speak about

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the mother spaceship they had no words

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in technology they speak about he was

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taken into the heaven

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finally Enoch is the first human who

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disappears in our solar system in a

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fiery chariot eunok left before the

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great fraud the earth in a fiery chariot

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now the same Enoch is the author of a

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book which is not part of the Bible the

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book was founded in a hundred and

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seventy years ago in old convent library

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etiopia and there in the Book of Enoch

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he speaks in the first person

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he tells what happened to him there were

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two beings coming down from space

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they spoke already their language which

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is not a surprise they observed the

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community like acknowledges were 2d they

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took him up into a giant

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antek building which he does not call

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heaven he is in there he learns the

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language of the extraterrestrials and

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then they teach him in different

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Sciences for example the astronomer says

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you human look out of the window do you

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see this little light out there you

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humans call it the moon but the moon has

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no light by itself the moon receives his

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light from the Sun and then he explains

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him the moon faces so why is the moon

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sometimes full or helpful or empty etc

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all right you're not repeating that in

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biblical language you're translating

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words and modernizing them yes exactly

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that's what I'm doing because we have to

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do it you see the biblical language

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makes really no sense it's full of

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contradictions soon as you look at it

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with our eyes then it makes a certain

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sense that's not only with the biblical

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traditions of which several other holy

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books of other communities in India we

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had old holy books when you look at them

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with modern eyes many stories of them

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they make perfectly sense so we see here

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is that the only way to understand it is

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to take the language of its time and

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make a good guess yes yes that's exactly

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the see you see when someone in

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antiquity was taken up into heaven we

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think heaven according to tradition is a

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place of happiness heaven is a place

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where the angels are heaven is a place

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where the humans after death came to

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heaven they are united with God but then

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you learn in holy books that that the

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same heaven there was a war for example

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in our Christian tradition there was a

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war in heaven one day an archangel with

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the name of Lucifer come up with his

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people to the throne of the Almighty God

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and he says we do not serve you anymore

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then the Almighty God asked for the help

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of the Archangel Michael and put Lucifer

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out of heaven now heaven in tradition

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should be the place of happiness in a

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place of happiness where you are united

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with God

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is no roar there is no proposition

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everyone is happy so we need new

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translations it was not happen it was

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space and soon as you know other

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traditions of other people around the

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world some thousands of years ago you'll

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find the same situation they speak about

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a war in heaven in space David what's

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your feeling about this well I think I

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would prefer to give more respect to the

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perceptions of the Ancients and not

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immediately translate heaven into space

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that you know don't go ahead yep you

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know by looking these old traditions

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with new eyes you never lose God let's

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imagine that money point of view would

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be correct so we were wicked bye bye

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okay so the next questions would be

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where did these aliens come from what

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evolution do they have what was their

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creation you could go on and speculate

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and they could say they were wicked by

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another solar system you can play back

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this game for millions of years finally

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you arrive to a starting point where in

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every respect with religion you say and

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here is God it is the beginning it is

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creation I never lost my god I am still

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one of the personalities who prays every

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day I'm not worried about you losing God

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what I'm worried about is you're losing

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the ancient human beings and their

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perceptions they look up to the sky and

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they do not see a gradually thinning

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atmosphere followed by blackness they

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look up and see and what's the word I'm

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looking for

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in any in Ex

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lickable mysterious realm of Lunas where

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clouds sail and where the Sun and the

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moon drive like chariots across the

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heaven

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day after day now we would say this is

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not true that let that be discarded

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these image this but it seems to me that

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to understand ancient texts on their own

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terms we have to get into the world view

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of the people who wrote them I sets

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two-hour break and will continue we have

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erich von daniken and we have david

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Halperin more to come

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we also have swag you know we have all

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these exclusive para cast things that

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you can buy we've got like I guess 60 or

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so different items and entails t-shirts

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sleeves for notebook computers iPad

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cases mouse pads the para cast jumbo

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tote bag all sorts of t-shirts and

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jackets and stuff like that for men and

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women we have a para cast aluminum water

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bottle all the stuff you go to steward

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dot ^ cast comm store dot the para cast

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com what makes special is that the items

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are the best quality of great t-shirts

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multiple sizes and colors we even have

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stuff for children stuff for women's

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stuff for men we have all sorts of sizes

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like small up to X large a lot good

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stuff that's the swag from the power

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cast calm that's news at the para cast

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calm and don't forget to visit our

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forum dr parra cast calm Erich von

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däniken visits us on the para cast with

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my old friend David Halpern Erik you had

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00:14:34,110 --> 00:14:30,459
a comment in response to what David just

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00:14:36,569 --> 00:14:34,120
said yes and I fully agree with David

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00:14:39,119 --> 00:14:36,579
of course our ancestors they knew

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00:14:41,009 --> 00:14:39,129
nothing about astronomy they were

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00:14:43,139 --> 00:14:41,019
looking to the skies they could not

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00:14:45,059 --> 00:14:43,149
understand the stars they could not

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00:14:47,699 --> 00:14:45,069
understand where the moon is here and

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00:14:50,699 --> 00:14:47,709
sometimes disappear and it was all a

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00:14:53,819 --> 00:14:50,709
world of miracle for them I fully

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00:14:54,989 --> 00:14:53,829
understand the Association but in this

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world of miracle

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00:15:01,499 --> 00:14:58,540
there were always so cold God's coming

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down and these gods they were teacher

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they teach men in several belongings and

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00:15:12,540 --> 00:15:09,639
this is not only part of the Bible texts

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00:15:15,449 --> 00:15:12,550
of old India of Alta Bates of Central

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00:15:18,420 --> 00:15:15,459
America etc it's always the same story

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00:15:20,869 --> 00:15:18,430
these teachers they give information and

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00:15:22,799 --> 00:15:20,879
that's the difference between natural

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00:15:25,910 --> 00:15:22,809
thousands of years ago there were

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natural storm or an earthquake or

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00:15:31,650 --> 00:15:29,319
lightning and our ancestor had no idea

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00:15:34,949 --> 00:15:31,660
of wasana me or physics so they believed

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00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:34,959
that these natural events were gods

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00:15:41,460 --> 00:15:38,170
made by the gods so the first religions

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00:15:44,819 --> 00:15:41,470
probably were natural religions but this

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00:15:47,759 --> 00:15:44,829
does not explain why some of the beings

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00:15:50,100 --> 00:15:47,769
who came down were teachers to humans

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00:15:52,290 --> 00:15:50,110
then they were information and they

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00:15:54,210 --> 00:15:52,300
stopped them in astronomy in develop a

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longing which has nothing to do with

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00:16:00,449 --> 00:15:57,100
earthquake which storm and whatever

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00:16:03,239 --> 00:16:00,459
there was information in the past and

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00:16:05,579 --> 00:16:03,249
the person who knows these old takes by

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00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:05,589
the way in the mean time I'm 83 years

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00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:06,250
old

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00:16:10,420 --> 00:16:08,410
so a person who knows these all thing I

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00:16:14,350 --> 00:16:10,430
can compare 16

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00:16:19,570 --> 00:16:14,360
Bible with other old scriptures I have

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00:16:23,650 --> 00:16:19,580
no question no problem with the text you

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00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:23,660
quote being actual documents I mean

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00:16:30,670 --> 00:16:27,290
you're not making these things up at the

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00:16:32,769 --> 00:16:30,680
same time I do wonder if you're putting

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00:16:36,490 --> 00:16:32,779
them in their proper place for example

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00:16:38,530 --> 00:16:36,500
you speak of the Ethiopia crook of Enoch

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00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:38,540
in which Enoch speaks in the first

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00:16:46,210 --> 00:16:42,410
person and tells his adventures you must

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00:16:49,420 --> 00:16:46,220
know that the overwhelming consensus of

355
00:16:53,710 --> 00:16:49,430
scholars is that these are books written

356
00:16:57,220 --> 00:16:53,720
in Enochs name a kind of imaginative

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00:17:03,010 --> 00:16:57,230
fiction written probably from the second

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00:17:07,780 --> 00:17:03,020
century BCE onward that this is what

359
00:17:12,220 --> 00:17:07,790
people imagine you would see if you were

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00:17:14,530 --> 00:17:12,230
carried up into heaven now if you want

361
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:14,540
to argue that the email actually wrote

362
00:17:20,380 --> 00:17:18,170
this just being a just being solitary

363
00:17:23,110 --> 00:17:20,390
just being that you're you're alone in

364
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:23,120
this doesn't mean you're wrong but you

365
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:25,970
do have to it seems to me run your

366
00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:31,010
readings of Enoch in competition with

367
00:17:39,810 --> 00:17:36,080
those of the ones that are much more

368
00:17:43,180 --> 00:17:39,820
widely accepted am I making sense I

369
00:17:45,330 --> 00:17:43,190
fully understand you because I know the

370
00:17:48,370 --> 00:17:45,340
comments of so many brilliant

371
00:17:51,970 --> 00:17:48,380
theologians who explained Enoch in

372
00:17:53,950 --> 00:17:51,980
different ways but do not forget the

373
00:17:58,750 --> 00:17:53,960
Book of Enoch is written in the first

374
00:18:01,480 --> 00:17:58,760
person in the I version he was there and

375
00:18:04,299 --> 00:18:01,490
at the end before he leaves our planet

376
00:18:06,700 --> 00:18:04,309
he gives his books he has written many

377
00:18:09,190 --> 00:18:06,710
books he say he gives these books to his

378
00:18:12,340 --> 00:18:09,200
son Methuselah Methuselah in the Bible

379
00:18:15,100 --> 00:18:12,350
and he says and now my son Methuselah I

380
00:18:17,650 --> 00:18:15,110
give you these books written by your

381
00:18:20,620 --> 00:18:17,660
forefathers and keep it for the

382
00:18:22,750 --> 00:18:20,630
generations after the Great Flood now if

383
00:18:23,549 --> 00:18:22,760
someone would have taken just Enochs

384
00:18:26,430 --> 00:18:23,559
name

385
00:18:29,039 --> 00:18:26,440
and misused it this would all be a

386
00:18:32,190 --> 00:18:29,049
terrible life he could not say and now

387
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:32,200
my son Methuselah I give you these books

388
00:18:37,049 --> 00:18:34,690
keep them for the generations after the

389
00:18:40,049 --> 00:18:37,059
Great Flood so it would all just be

390
00:18:43,019 --> 00:18:40,059
mixed up I rather believe that the

391
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:43,029
biggest part of Enoch a reality written

392
00:18:49,769 --> 00:18:46,330
by him but in fact not everything during

393
00:18:53,310 --> 00:18:49,779
centuries always other texts have been

394
00:18:54,989 --> 00:18:53,320
added to Enoch as to the other Oh texts

395
00:18:57,149 --> 00:18:54,999
by the way to this happen in the Bible

396
00:18:58,830 --> 00:18:57,159
too for example in the Bible we know

397
00:19:01,649 --> 00:18:58,840
everyone know the story of the Great

398
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:01,659
Flood but the Great Flood story had

399
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:04,450
existed long before Bible in the

400
00:19:08,759 --> 00:19:06,490
Sumerian Gilgamesh epic you read about

401
00:19:11,100 --> 00:19:08,769
the same story of the Great Flood while

402
00:19:14,460 --> 00:19:11,110
in the Bible the stories handed down in

403
00:19:17,129 --> 00:19:14,470
the third person and he Noah did

404
00:19:19,230 --> 00:19:17,139
construct the ark in the Gilgamesh epic

405
00:19:23,730 --> 00:19:19,240
of the Sumerian it's written down in the

406
00:19:26,159 --> 00:19:23,740
first person and I did constructed etc

407
00:19:29,159 --> 00:19:26,169
there are some little differences would

408
00:19:33,269 --> 00:19:29,169
you consider the possibility that a

409
00:19:36,450 --> 00:19:33,279
writer can write imaginatively in the

410
00:19:39,299 --> 00:19:36,460
first person of someone whom he's never

411
00:19:42,930 --> 00:19:39,309
known and never seen and who never

412
00:19:46,590 --> 00:19:42,940
existed Homer has no problem doing that

413
00:19:49,710 --> 00:19:46,600
writing Odysseus adventures in the first

414
00:19:50,100 --> 00:19:49,720
person you and I have no problem doing

415
00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:50,110
that

416
00:19:56,180 --> 00:19:52,690
for I've written almost in the first

417
00:20:00,509 --> 00:19:56,190
person why should we deny our

418
00:20:03,749 --> 00:20:00,519
predecessors the same Helen well I

419
00:20:05,549 --> 00:20:03,759
certainly accept your position I have

420
00:20:08,669 --> 00:20:05,559
written myself novels in the first

421
00:20:11,399 --> 00:20:08,679
person me authors have written novels in

422
00:20:14,029 --> 00:20:11,409
the first person but then it's fiction

423
00:20:17,070 --> 00:20:14,039
issue dot had become a holy book for

424
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:17,080
mankind and Enoch should not become one

425
00:20:21,419 --> 00:20:19,570
of the seventh aprea should not be a

426
00:20:24,299 --> 00:20:21,429
prophet in the Bible then he simply a

427
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:24,309
liar you are pointing to what I think is

428
00:20:27,690 --> 00:20:25,570
a real problem

429
00:20:30,509 --> 00:20:27,700
and this is the problem it's usually

430
00:20:33,899 --> 00:20:30,519
called the problem of pseudepigrapha

431
00:20:36,710 --> 00:20:33,909
most scholars will start out with the

432
00:20:40,159 --> 00:20:36,720
assumption that

433
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:40,169
the authors of the Book of Enoch were

434
00:20:46,100 --> 00:20:41,850
there seemed to be more than one author

435
00:20:48,890 --> 00:20:46,110
that they were anonymous people writing

436
00:20:52,789 --> 00:20:48,900
in the name of Enoch and the question

437
00:20:54,980 --> 00:20:52,799
becomes how could they do this this it

438
00:20:59,120 --> 00:20:54,990
seems to me as a psychological question

439
00:21:02,000 --> 00:20:59,130
that has not been adequately answered I

440
00:21:06,110 --> 00:21:02,010
can take stabs at it but I still see it

441
00:21:09,529 --> 00:21:06,120
as as a difficult problem it seems to me

442
00:21:13,669 --> 00:21:09,539
much easier to deal with this problem

443
00:21:16,669 --> 00:21:13,679
than to assume that Enoch actually

444
00:21:21,169 --> 00:21:16,679
existed and that the fantastic things

445
00:21:25,250 --> 00:21:21,179
that he speaks of are things that happen

446
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:25,260
in real history we have to compare

447
00:21:30,140 --> 00:21:27,570
another personality in the Bible we have

448
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:30,150
the so-called prophet Ezekiel in the

449
00:21:35,419 --> 00:21:32,490
Bible at the end of the Old Testament

450
00:21:38,210 --> 00:21:35,429
Ezekiel describes how he sees a flying

451
00:21:41,029 --> 00:21:38,220
chariots coming down he describes the

452
00:21:44,090 --> 00:21:41,039
wheels and the leg at the metal he even

453
00:21:47,210 --> 00:21:44,100
describes the noise etc now of course I

454
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:47,220
know that many biblical scholars say

455
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:50,250
that a GTL simply had a vision he saw

456
00:21:56,450 --> 00:21:53,250
the Lord on his throne rather than

457
00:21:59,450 --> 00:21:56,460
flying around in a chariot of the God so

458
00:22:02,659 --> 00:21:59,460
that's a wonderful meaning but I cannot

459
00:22:05,810 --> 00:22:02,669
agree with it because again in my belief

460
00:22:08,180 --> 00:22:05,820
and again I believe in God I'm a deeply

461
00:22:10,789 --> 00:22:08,190
we might believe God does not need a

462
00:22:12,919 --> 00:22:10,799
vehicle in which to move around so he

463
00:22:14,930 --> 00:22:12,929
never saw God sitting on his flying

464
00:22:17,060 --> 00:22:14,940
chariots flying around because God has

465
00:22:18,980 --> 00:22:17,070
not the flying chariot baby-g here

466
00:22:20,990 --> 00:22:18,990
describes the legs and the wheels and

467
00:22:24,529 --> 00:22:21,000
the noise so a modern interpretation

468
00:22:26,180 --> 00:22:24,539
seems for me to make sense all through

469
00:22:28,250 --> 00:22:26,190
there are many controversies left of

470
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:28,260
course contradictions left we're going

471
00:22:31,970 --> 00:22:30,210
to continue with this discussion with

472
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:31,980
David Halpern and Erich von Daniken

473
00:22:37,850 --> 00:22:34,770
about the meaning of events described in

474
00:22:40,130 --> 00:22:37,860
the Bible ancient astronauts visitors

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from outer space more to come you're in

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thank you for listening to GCN

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that's fum six six two five four three

581
00:27:10,900 --> 00:27:08,289
is Greg Cameron from presidential UFO

582
00:27:18,900 --> 00:27:10,910
calm you're listening to the para cast

583
00:27:24,940 --> 00:27:22,299
Chris O'Brien is not here today

584
00:27:27,580 --> 00:27:24,950
and the reason is he's preparing to move

585
00:27:29,740 --> 00:27:27,590
probably be present for a while when we

586
00:27:32,230 --> 00:27:29,750
do the episode with Stan Gordon which is

587
00:27:34,289 --> 00:27:32,240
coming up on next week's show so we'll

588
00:27:36,490 --> 00:27:34,299
continue with Erich von däniken and

589
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:36,500
David perhaps you won't have a response

590
00:27:39,490 --> 00:27:37,010
to that

591
00:27:42,070 --> 00:27:39,500
the thing I'm wondering about here is at

592
00:27:46,180 --> 00:27:42,080
what point do we interpret something in

593
00:27:48,039 --> 00:27:46,190
the Bible as a possible work a fiction

594
00:27:50,649 --> 00:27:48,049
just like you write fiction I write

595
00:27:54,190 --> 00:27:50,659
fiction and something that is meant to

596
00:27:56,590 --> 00:27:54,200
represent actual events what's the line

597
00:27:58,870 --> 00:27:56,600
of demarcation here I think that's

598
00:28:02,200 --> 00:27:58,880
that's a really really good question

599
00:28:05,890 --> 00:28:02,210
that does not necessarily mean that it

600
00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:05,900
does that is to say that people can

601
00:28:13,539 --> 00:28:10,130
write fiction and try to pass it off as

602
00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:13,549
something that really happened which

603
00:28:20,409 --> 00:28:18,289
cannot be excluded well you know soon as

604
00:28:22,990 --> 00:28:20,419
a science fiction writer of the deep

605
00:28:25,570 --> 00:28:23,000
past thousands of years ago let's call

606
00:28:29,350 --> 00:28:25,580
him Enoch or Ezekiel whatever when he

607
00:28:33,100 --> 00:28:29,360
writes scientific facts which could not

608
00:28:35,950 --> 00:28:33,110
have been known at his time then it's

609
00:28:38,890 --> 00:28:35,960
not science fiction in the case the so

610
00:28:41,770 --> 00:28:38,900
called angels are the highest up there

611
00:28:44,230 --> 00:28:41,780
explains to Enoch not only about the

612
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:44,240
moon and the light whether the moon has

613
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:46,610
his light from he explains him also the

614
00:28:51,340 --> 00:28:49,010
calendar he says you see all these

615
00:28:53,980 --> 00:28:51,350
little lights up there they are all sons

616
00:28:57,310 --> 00:28:53,990
like us son here and around these sons

617
00:28:59,580 --> 00:28:57,320
there are planets around II he explains

618
00:29:03,310 --> 00:28:59,590
them the calendar of the earth including

619
00:29:05,470 --> 00:29:03,320
leaked hours not leaked days as we have

620
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:05,480
it every four years so this is

621
00:29:10,510 --> 00:29:08,450
scientific information which the writer

622
00:29:12,669 --> 00:29:10,520
had some thousands of years could not

623
00:29:15,010 --> 00:29:12,679
have known in his time it was all before

624
00:29:17,890 --> 00:29:15,020
the great flood now when

625
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:17,900
the information Cameron now when I read

626
00:29:24,190 --> 00:29:20,330
The Book of Enoch it did not seem to me

627
00:29:27,700 --> 00:29:24,200
to have any scientific information that

628
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:27,710
we would recognize as such that oh yes

629
00:29:32,710 --> 00:29:30,770
well it has to do it is so-called

630
00:29:35,530 --> 00:29:32,720
astronomical chapter you find a lot of

631
00:29:37,810 --> 00:29:35,540
it well you can tell me I have a copy of

632
00:29:42,190 --> 00:29:37,820
it on myself let's shall we look it up

633
00:29:45,460 --> 00:29:42,200
again Enoch is just one example you have

634
00:29:46,990 --> 00:29:45,470
to see to compare other examples with

635
00:29:49,450 --> 00:29:47,000
other writers some thousands of years

636
00:29:52,330 --> 00:29:49,460
ago from other cultures for example from

637
00:29:54,190 --> 00:29:52,340
India there you have the Mahabharata and

638
00:29:56,470 --> 00:29:54,200
in the fifth book of the Mahabharata the

639
00:29:59,650 --> 00:29:56,480
Mosel Apoorva there is something light

640
00:30:02,950 --> 00:29:59,660
you know the man is called Arjuna he was

641
00:30:06,010 --> 00:30:02,960
taken up to the sky and he comes again

642
00:30:08,290 --> 00:30:06,020
like you know to a gigantic thing he

643
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:08,300
does not call it spaceship the

644
00:30:12,610 --> 00:30:10,490
translation call it heaven and it

645
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:12,620
happened something similar like to Enoch

646
00:30:18,580 --> 00:30:15,890
his easing into instructed in astronomy

647
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:18,590
and several belongings okay I have the

648
00:30:24,700 --> 00:30:21,730
Book of Enoch open now to chapter 72

649
00:30:27,820 --> 00:30:24,710
here's what I'm reading the Sun is a

650
00:30:30,610 --> 00:30:27,830
luminary whose egress is an opening of

651
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:30,620
heaven which is located in the direction

652
00:30:37,030 --> 00:30:33,650
of the east and whose ingress is another

653
00:30:39,970 --> 00:30:37,040
opening of heaven located in the West I

654
00:30:42,940 --> 00:30:39,980
saw six openings through which the Sun

655
00:30:46,090 --> 00:30:42,950
rises and six openings through which it

656
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:46,100
sets the moon also rises and sets

657
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:49,010
through the same openings and they are

658
00:30:54,250 --> 00:30:51,770
guided by the Stars together with those

659
00:30:56,830 --> 00:30:54,260
whom they leave there are six in the

660
00:30:59,440 --> 00:30:56,840
east and six in the West heaven there

661
00:31:02,800 --> 00:30:59,450
are many windows both to the left and

662
00:31:04,870 --> 00:31:02,810
the right of these openings first there

663
00:31:07,510 --> 00:31:04,880
goes out the great light whose name is

664
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:07,520
the Sun its roundness is like the

665
00:31:13,030 --> 00:31:10,490
roundness of the sky and it is totally

666
00:31:16,030 --> 00:31:13,040
filled with light and heat the chariot

667
00:31:19,780 --> 00:31:16,040
on which it ascends is driven by the

668
00:31:22,690 --> 00:31:19,790
blowing wind the Sun sets in the sky in

669
00:31:25,030 --> 00:31:22,700
the West and returns by the Northeast in

670
00:31:27,130 --> 00:31:25,040
order to go to the east and so forth I

671
00:31:28,419 --> 00:31:27,140
won't keep reading this but isn't it

672
00:31:30,940 --> 00:31:28,429
perfectly clear

673
00:31:35,169 --> 00:31:30,950
that the man or woman who was writing

674
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:35,179
this has no knowledge of astronomy as we

675
00:31:42,730 --> 00:31:38,090
conceived it and that indeed what he or

676
00:31:46,180 --> 00:31:42,740
she is repeating the what we now know to

677
00:31:49,169 --> 00:31:46,190
be the false astronomy event acquittee

678
00:31:52,029 --> 00:31:49,179
you see the Book of Enoch has been

679
00:31:54,789 --> 00:31:52,039
translated many many time like by the

680
00:31:57,340 --> 00:31:54,799
way most of the old book and always some

681
00:32:00,399 --> 00:31:57,350
other writers have understood nothing

682
00:32:04,119 --> 00:32:00,409
they could not understand what Enoch was

683
00:32:06,759 --> 00:32:04,129
saying so it was them who added all kind

684
00:32:09,430 --> 00:32:06,769
of thing about the doors where the Sun

685
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:09,440
goes into the doors maybe today we would

686
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:11,330
translate it and say the different

687
00:32:16,690 --> 00:32:13,970
seasons they seasons inside in winter

688
00:32:19,060 --> 00:32:16,700
and spring and cetera it's all a

689
00:32:21,100 --> 00:32:19,070
question of how these translators looked

690
00:32:23,769 --> 00:32:21,110
a bit and what they understood some

691
00:32:26,919 --> 00:32:23,779
hundreds of soot maybe even thousands

692
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:26,929
years ago but there are still facts in

693
00:32:33,509 --> 00:32:29,450
the Book of Enoch like for example the

694
00:32:37,149 --> 00:32:33,519
moon has his light from the Sun etc so I

695
00:32:39,669 --> 00:32:37,159
still see there is an original source

696
00:32:42,609 --> 00:32:39,679
and this original source written in the

697
00:32:44,919 --> 00:32:42,619
first person has been mixed during the

698
00:32:47,499 --> 00:32:44,929
last earth thousands of years I think

699
00:32:49,359 --> 00:32:47,509
our star will know that - I mean that

700
00:32:51,430 --> 00:32:49,369
the ancient Greeks knew that the world

701
00:32:57,090 --> 00:32:51,440
was round they were able to measure it

702
00:33:03,149 --> 00:32:57,100
to measure its diameter so I don't say

703
00:33:05,950 --> 00:33:03,159
in the text that you're referring to any

704
00:33:10,029 --> 00:33:05,960
scientific knowledge that cannot be

705
00:33:12,220 --> 00:33:10,039
perfectly well explained by its time and

706
00:33:14,379 --> 00:33:12,230
when you start bringing in translators

707
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:14,389
and people getting later transmitters

708
00:33:19,450 --> 00:33:16,730
getting it messed up I think you are

709
00:33:22,930 --> 00:33:19,460
introducing you are trying to save your

710
00:33:27,220 --> 00:33:22,940
system by making arbitrary assumption

711
00:33:29,409 --> 00:33:27,230
but then you have another problem if you

712
00:33:33,730 --> 00:33:29,419
look it's just a science fiction story

713
00:33:35,710 --> 00:33:33,740
who was to write why what for why has it

714
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:35,720
become a holly book The Book of Enoch

715
00:33:40,389 --> 00:33:37,730
should be one of the holy book why you

716
00:33:42,250 --> 00:33:40,399
no prophet among the Jewish community

717
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:42,260
etc these

718
00:33:48,130 --> 00:33:46,010
are very good questions and there is no

719
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:48,140
reason why they can't be approached

720
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:51,530
without bringing in extraterrestrials

721
00:33:57,630 --> 00:33:54,530
one thing one thing you did very with

722
00:34:01,000 --> 00:33:57,640
which I approve are very strongly in

723
00:34:04,810 --> 00:34:01,010
Chariots of the Gods is you bring out

724
00:34:08,919 --> 00:34:04,820
how much mystery there is in antiquity

725
00:34:12,250 --> 00:34:08,929
there is a lot we don't know a lot we

726
00:34:16,649 --> 00:34:12,260
don't understand and our image of what

727
00:34:21,010 --> 00:34:16,659
we think we know is our way of drawing

728
00:34:23,470 --> 00:34:21,020
connections among the dots the bits of

729
00:34:27,879 --> 00:34:23,480
data which were antiquity are quite

730
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:27,889
sparse and connecting those dots so I'm

731
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:30,530
glad you did that I'm glad you open

732
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:34,130
people's eyes to the uncertainties of

733
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:37,610
the past but when you I am bound to say

734
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:41,090
that the solution that you offer the

735
00:34:46,540 --> 00:34:43,690
picture that you draw of

736
00:34:49,889 --> 00:34:46,550
extraterrestrials in intervening in

737
00:34:53,590 --> 00:34:49,899
human life does not seem to me to work

738
00:34:55,810 --> 00:34:53,600
read invite anyone who's listening to

739
00:34:58,810 --> 00:34:55,820
this to read The Book of Ezekiel

740
00:35:02,200 --> 00:34:58,820
straight through from chapter 1 to

741
00:35:05,020 --> 00:35:02,210
chapter 48 and see if that really sounds

742
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:05,030
like a spirit extraterrestrials talking

743
00:35:08,830 --> 00:35:07,610
to human beings I don't think it will

744
00:35:11,470 --> 00:35:08,840
work at all

745
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:11,480
let me ask you a question here before we

746
00:35:14,980 --> 00:35:13,130
go on let me ask you a question here

747
00:35:18,100 --> 00:35:14,990
David just to get your feelings about

748
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:18,110
this do you think there's any evidence

749
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:20,810
at all that we were visited in ancient

750
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:25,610
times by extraterrestrials none at all

751
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:30,530
in my opinion but to read Ezekiel and to

752
00:35:38,310 --> 00:35:34,370
say these are extraterrestrials is every

753
00:35:42,610 --> 00:35:38,320
bit as much a conventional ization a

754
00:35:45,940 --> 00:35:42,620
reduction of something truly mysterious

755
00:35:49,210 --> 00:35:45,950
to what we think of as conventional

756
00:35:52,030 --> 00:35:49,220
terms every bit as much as saying that

757
00:35:52,870 --> 00:35:52,040
these are visions of God you hear what

758
00:35:54,830 --> 00:35:52,880
I'm saying

759
00:35:58,730 --> 00:35:54,840
both to say it's a vision

760
00:36:01,900 --> 00:35:58,740
of the biblical God and to say as

761
00:36:05,180 --> 00:36:01,910
missions of spacecraft are both

762
00:36:08,330 --> 00:36:05,190
conventional reductions of something

763
00:36:10,130 --> 00:36:08,340
that is beyond reduction we'll get into

764
00:36:11,930 --> 00:36:10,140
more of this in just a moment let me

765
00:36:14,630 --> 00:36:11,940
remind you we have a second radio show

766
00:36:16,700 --> 00:36:14,640
called after the power cast that you can

767
00:36:19,220 --> 00:36:16,710
hear if you subscribe to the power cast

768
00:36:21,500 --> 00:36:19,230
plus we also give you a version of the

769
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show free of the network as it's a

770
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terrific package to learn more about how

771
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:26,490
you can subscribe go to plus dot the

772
00:36:31,430 --> 00:36:28,650
power cast com that's plus dr. Peric

773
00:36:33,890 --> 00:36:31,440
ascom Chris O'Brien is the process of

774
00:36:35,450 --> 00:36:33,900
moving we have erich von daniken author

775
00:36:38,330 --> 00:36:35,460
of Chariots of the Gods and many other

776
00:36:40,580 --> 00:36:38,340
books we have David Halpern and we'll

777
00:36:47,820 --> 00:36:40,590
continue our discussion you're in the

778
00:36:47,830 --> 00:36:52,990
[Music]

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dream that turns out to be a nightmare

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821
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822
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824
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826
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827
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828
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829
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830
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831
00:39:15,730 --> 00:39:12,620
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832
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833
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834
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835
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836
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837
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838
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839
00:39:34,930 --> 00:39:32,930
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840
00:39:37,090 --> 00:39:34,940
laundry with detergents are you happy

841
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:37,100
paying high prices find your happiness

842
00:39:41,740 --> 00:39:39,650
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843
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:41,750
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844
00:39:47,620 --> 00:39:45,410
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845
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846
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:49,880
individually and still save big you're

847
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848
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:53,870
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849
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850
00:40:00,070 --> 00:39:56,840
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851
00:40:02,020 --> 00:40:00,080
happiness is five-star soap calm why not

852
00:40:04,570 --> 00:40:02,030
put your money up to drain for a change

853
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:04,580
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854
00:40:09,250 --> 00:40:07,010
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855
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856
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857
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858
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860
00:40:23,170 --> 00:40:20,090
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861
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862
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863
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864
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865
00:40:34,630 --> 00:40:32,720
important thing your body needs so you

866
00:40:37,750 --> 00:40:34,640
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867
00:40:39,790 --> 00:40:37,760
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868
00:40:41,740 --> 00:40:39,800
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869
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:41,750
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870
00:40:47,020 --> 00:40:44,330
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871
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872
00:40:52,510 --> 00:40:50,570
in an emergency get to go Berkey calm or

873
00:40:54,850 --> 00:40:52,520
call eight seven seven eight eight six

874
00:40:57,220 --> 00:40:54,860
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875
00:41:01,640 --> 00:40:57,230
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876
00:41:07,470 --> 00:41:04,710
hi this is James Fox from chasing UFOs

877
00:41:14,070 --> 00:41:07,480
you're listening to the panic at the

878
00:41:16,260 --> 00:41:14,080
gold standard of paranormal radio Erich

879
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:16,270
von däniken making his first appearance

880
00:41:21,690 --> 00:41:18,850
in the para cast I assume at this point

881
00:41:23,250 --> 00:41:21,700
having heard David Halperin's response

882
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:23,260
you have somewhere to say go ahead

883
00:41:28,230 --> 00:41:25,930
please of course of course

884
00:41:30,510 --> 00:41:28,240
I have just a new book on the American

885
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:30,520
market is called the gods never left us

886
00:41:37,220 --> 00:41:33,850
and there in the last chapter I compared

887
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:37,230
at least 30 different mythologies

888
00:41:42,810 --> 00:41:40,090
mythologies which are all in pre

889
00:41:45,810 --> 00:41:42,820
storytimes mythologies of people with

890
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:45,820
where no one has an information from the

891
00:41:50,790 --> 00:41:48,130
other for example in the South Sea in

892
00:41:53,010 --> 00:41:50,800
the South Pacific there are cultures

893
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:53,020
existing and they have their myths and

894
00:41:57,660 --> 00:41:54,970
traditions and it is funny

895
00:42:00,180 --> 00:41:57,670
some of them each are similar to the one

896
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:00,190
for example in the in the rest of the

897
00:42:05,460 --> 00:42:02,770
world let's call it in Finland or the

898
00:42:08,430 --> 00:42:05,470
old German roots or the Greek myths but

899
00:42:10,620 --> 00:42:08,440
all these communities had no contact in

900
00:42:12,900 --> 00:42:10,630
them why'd they all come to the same

901
00:42:16,170 --> 00:42:12,910
idea that in the beginning there was a

902
00:42:18,810 --> 00:42:16,180
cows out of the cows some gods descended

903
00:42:22,020 --> 00:42:18,820
the gods created humans according their

904
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:22,030
own image and this is not one myth this

905
00:42:27,180 --> 00:42:24,610
is all over the world I just made this

906
00:42:29,700 --> 00:42:27,190
comparison in my new book so I

907
00:42:33,300 --> 00:42:29,710
understand the position of the believing

908
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:33,310
people and we have really one situation

909
00:42:39,210 --> 00:42:36,970
you see on this planet we have to buy

910
00:42:41,940 --> 00:42:39,220
the points to look at these old things

911
00:42:44,130 --> 00:42:41,950
we have a religious point according to

912
00:42:46,410 --> 00:42:44,140
the religious point it is God and God

913
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:46,420
created everything there's a crown of

914
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:49,090
creation he made finally us but then we

915
00:42:54,690 --> 00:42:52,090
have a scientific point the science says

916
00:42:57,840 --> 00:42:54,700
it's all evolution but we are the top of

917
00:43:00,120 --> 00:42:57,850
evolution now in both versions if we

918
00:43:02,700 --> 00:43:00,130
look at it at the religious point the

919
00:43:05,340 --> 00:43:02,710
crown of creation or scientific the top

920
00:43:08,130 --> 00:43:05,350
of evolution in both cases we look at

921
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:08,140
ourselves as the greatest something like

922
00:43:13,140 --> 00:43:11,530
us does not exist and I think this view

923
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:13,150
is wrong in

924
00:43:17,789 --> 00:43:15,970
I view Oh through I cannot prove it in

925
00:43:20,250 --> 00:43:17,799
my view the universe is full of life

926
00:43:23,549 --> 00:43:20,260
and we have been influenced by

927
00:43:26,339 --> 00:43:23,559
extraterrestrials again I would say try

928
00:43:29,849 --> 00:43:26,349
reading the Book of Ezekiel from

929
00:43:32,789 --> 00:43:29,859
beginning to end and run the Astra

930
00:43:36,210 --> 00:43:32,799
terrestrial theory on that I think

931
00:43:36,980 --> 00:43:36,220
you're going to find a lot of problems

932
00:43:40,349 --> 00:43:36,990
with it

933
00:43:44,690 --> 00:43:40,359
Ezekiel Goeth Ezekiel has taken into the

934
00:43:46,460 --> 00:43:44,700
Jerusalem Temple he he's shown

935
00:43:50,519 --> 00:43:46,470
abominations there what are the

936
00:43:52,740 --> 00:43:50,529
abominations worshiping the Sun the

937
00:43:55,170 --> 00:43:52,750
women weeping for Tammuz

938
00:43:57,930 --> 00:43:55,180
why should extraterrestrials care about

939
00:44:00,839 --> 00:43:57,940
these things in the Book of Ezekiel

940
00:44:02,910 --> 00:44:00,849
there are incredible stories which

941
00:44:07,049 --> 00:44:02,920
obviously have nothing to do with the

942
00:44:09,839 --> 00:44:07,059
original Ezekiel the riches if deke is

943
00:44:12,390 --> 00:44:09,849
like a skeleton when he describes the

944
00:44:16,589 --> 00:44:12,400
flying chariot he describes as I said

945
00:44:19,829 --> 00:44:16,599
before the wheel and the noises etc this

946
00:44:22,589 --> 00:44:19,839
is his caliber and later on because

947
00:44:25,559 --> 00:44:22,599
people could not understand what a GTL

948
00:44:31,140 --> 00:44:25,569
was saying they added all kinds of

949
00:44:34,220 --> 00:44:31,150
things I read more than 89 theologies

950
00:44:38,579 --> 00:44:34,230
who had different opinions about Ezekiel

951
00:44:40,140 --> 00:44:38,589
some of the hundred theologians say a G

952
00:44:42,720 --> 00:44:40,150
a G K was an epileptic

953
00:44:45,510 --> 00:44:42,730
he didn't had a vision it's all just

954
00:44:48,450 --> 00:44:45,520
imagination all kind of versions are

955
00:44:50,819 --> 00:44:48,460
there but Ezekiel is describing a flying

956
00:44:52,019 --> 00:44:50,829
chariot he describes the noise he

957
00:44:55,410 --> 00:44:52,029
compares the noise with the thundering

958
00:44:57,750 --> 00:44:55,420
of a waterfall etc so he's not only

959
00:45:00,059 --> 00:44:57,760
seeing something like a vision he's

960
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:00,069
hearing some but then I have to accept

961
00:45:04,980 --> 00:45:02,650
but you said there is a lot of thing in

962
00:45:07,650 --> 00:45:04,990
a detail which definitely had nothing to

963
00:45:13,140 --> 00:45:07,660
do with extraterrestrials and therefore

964
00:45:16,170 --> 00:45:13,150
your hypothesis requires you to make all

965
00:45:19,710 --> 00:45:16,180
sorts of arbitrary distinctions and

966
00:45:22,559 --> 00:45:19,720
throw out whatever does not suit it and

967
00:45:24,839 --> 00:45:22,569
that does not seem like a very

968
00:45:27,089 --> 00:45:24,849
successful hypothesis

969
00:45:30,059 --> 00:45:27,099
well it's only point how you

970
00:45:34,019 --> 00:45:30,069
a bit and what you know you can look at

971
00:45:37,259 --> 00:45:34,029
it in a way of believer and then what is

972
00:45:39,299 --> 00:45:37,269
the result you believe that Ezekiel had

973
00:45:41,849 --> 00:45:39,309
seen the Lord

974
00:45:43,890 --> 00:45:41,859
in his flying chariot and all about what

975
00:45:45,450 --> 00:45:43,900
is written there in the tikka story you

976
00:45:49,950 --> 00:45:45,460
believe it has to do with God

977
00:45:51,989 --> 00:45:49,960
well what sort of God is it or else you

978
00:45:56,279 --> 00:45:51,999
can say that what you are reading in

979
00:45:59,279 --> 00:45:56,289
Ezekiel is the projection of a man part

980
00:46:03,239 --> 00:45:59,289
of a small nation that has gotten very

981
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:03,249
badly banged up in the great power

982
00:46:09,569 --> 00:46:06,249
struggles of the time who has endured

983
00:46:14,519 --> 00:46:09,579
the trauma of being driven into exile

984
00:46:20,779 --> 00:46:14,529
and who has projected on the basis of

985
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:20,789
his own traumas a being that is the

986
00:46:28,499 --> 00:46:24,970
cause the explanation and a possible

987
00:46:31,170 --> 00:46:28,509
solution of them this is a very secular

988
00:46:33,950 --> 00:46:31,180
approach to the Bible but not what

989
00:46:37,859 --> 00:46:33,960
therefore to be rejected necessarily

990
00:46:40,259 --> 00:46:37,869
well of course I respect the answer of

991
00:46:43,739 --> 00:46:40,269
the believers but I have a different

992
00:46:46,319 --> 00:46:43,749
opinion I'm a seeker for God for the

993
00:46:49,650 --> 00:46:46,329
real God I never understood God also I

994
00:46:53,430 --> 00:46:49,660
pray to God every evening but that what

995
00:46:56,819 --> 00:46:53,440
I find in the old books about God cannot

996
00:46:59,190 --> 00:46:56,829
be God what I think is God God would use

997
00:47:01,079 --> 00:46:59,200
a vehicle God would comes down on the

998
00:47:04,759 --> 00:47:01,089
Mount with smoke and fire and loud noise

999
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:04,769
etc I I don't believe this sort of God

1000
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:08,890
what if I'm looking for yes so I'm

1001
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:10,930
looking for other possible answers and

1002
00:47:16,019 --> 00:47:13,450
the modern point of view is quite the

1003
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:16,029
possible answer soon as you compare it

1004
00:47:20,729 --> 00:47:18,249
with other writings around the world if

1005
00:47:22,709 --> 00:47:20,739
you look it only at the Bible like AG

1006
00:47:24,509 --> 00:47:22,719
keel or maybe like you know then it's

1007
00:47:28,769 --> 00:47:24,519
definitely not enough and I have to

1008
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:28,779
agree what you suggest here IIIi think

1009
00:47:36,839 --> 00:47:33,729
that you very much underrate the value

1010
00:47:40,259 --> 00:47:36,849
of the capacity of the human imagination

1011
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:40,269
why imagine chariots in the sky while

1012
00:47:43,550 --> 00:47:40,770
there

1013
00:47:46,970 --> 00:47:43,560
at least one possible answer to that

1014
00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:46,980
that we I know if I'm in live in the

1015
00:47:55,070 --> 00:47:50,730
ancient world whether in in Palestine or

1016
00:47:58,040 --> 00:47:55,080
in India that that that the king is the

1017
00:48:02,120 --> 00:47:58,050
king has his army of chariots his force

1018
00:48:05,330 --> 00:48:02,130
of chariots who who destroy his enemies

1019
00:48:08,530 --> 00:48:05,340
and protect him well why not assume that

1020
00:48:09,830 --> 00:48:08,540
God is a king in heaven who has flying

1021
00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:09,840
chariots

1022
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:14,250
we know that the sky we see it a fiery

1023
00:48:21,860 --> 00:48:17,610
flying chariot it's called the Sun why

1024
00:48:27,350 --> 00:48:21,870
not project from these realities into a

1025
00:48:29,330 --> 00:48:27,360
fantasy that turns up similar in many

1026
00:48:33,770 --> 00:48:29,340
different their different cultures

1027
00:48:36,860 --> 00:48:33,780
because it has similar roots well in the

1028
00:48:38,030 --> 00:48:36,870
old Indian texts in the Mosel of Allah

1029
00:48:40,190 --> 00:48:38,040
which is the fifth book of the

1030
00:48:43,790 --> 00:48:40,200
Mahabharata they clearly make

1031
00:48:44,510 --> 00:48:43,800
differences between chariots which can

1032
00:48:49,430 --> 00:48:44,520
fly

1033
00:48:52,730 --> 00:48:49,440
them have wheels other of them have

1034
00:48:55,310 --> 00:48:52,740
never wheels chariots which surround the

1035
00:48:57,860 --> 00:48:55,320
earth chariots even go to the moon

1036
00:49:01,180 --> 00:48:57,870
they make these differences and they

1037
00:49:04,100 --> 00:49:01,190
know what it was it was not just only a

1038
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:04,110
chariot like a normal wagon which was

1039
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:08,370
but horse were there etc there are these

1040
00:49:16,670 --> 00:49:12,570
differences and why does that prove that

1041
00:49:19,490 --> 00:49:16,680
that they describe realities why Cannot

1042
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:19,500
the human imagination make those

1043
00:49:26,060 --> 00:49:23,610
distinctions well you can never exclude

1044
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:26,070
it except when you have information

1045
00:49:32,530 --> 00:49:29,090
which were not reasonable at that time

1046
00:49:34,820 --> 00:49:32,540
as I said some astronomical information

1047
00:49:36,620 --> 00:49:34,830
who you mentioned the Book of Enoch

1048
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:36,630
before now it's just a chapter you said

1049
00:49:41,930 --> 00:49:38,850
about the planets with all these stores

1050
00:49:43,850 --> 00:49:41,940
which can be completely misunderstood on

1051
00:49:47,060 --> 00:49:43,860
the other hand one of the so-called

1052
00:49:49,100 --> 00:49:47,070
teachers of heaven says to Enoch look

1053
00:49:52,010 --> 00:49:49,110
out of the window you see this little

1054
00:49:54,170 --> 00:49:52,020
light you humans call it moon the moon

1055
00:49:56,420 --> 00:49:54,180
has no light by itself it is

1056
00:49:58,640 --> 00:49:56,430
receives the light from the Sun so this

1057
00:50:01,640 --> 00:49:58,650
is an information which could not have

1058
00:50:02,720 --> 00:50:01,650
known by some scientific right or some

1059
00:50:09,650 --> 00:50:02,730
thousand of years ago

1060
00:50:12,130 --> 00:50:09,660
are you already know huh my impression

1061
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:12,140
is that the Greeks already knew that

1062
00:50:17,090 --> 00:50:14,490
well the Greeks were brilliant we know I

1063
00:50:19,580 --> 00:50:17,100
know Greek tradition and as he as he

1064
00:50:22,910 --> 00:50:19,590
said before the Greek know about the

1065
00:50:26,210 --> 00:50:22,920
round earth and a lot of things but the

1066
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:26,220
Greek also they're flying machines god

1067
00:50:33,500 --> 00:50:29,850
Apollo temps down to two Delfy in a

1068
00:50:35,630 --> 00:50:33,510
flying chariot god Apollo flies to the

1069
00:50:38,090 --> 00:50:35,640
land of the Hyperborean in a flying

1070
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:38,100
chariot in some of the Greeks meets

1071
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:41,850
Mitch God comes out of the sea and goes

1072
00:50:48,260 --> 00:50:44,850
into the sky so it's all fantastic

1073
00:50:50,750 --> 00:50:48,270
stories all the god Jews in the Greek

1074
00:50:53,750 --> 00:50:50,760
mythology he has constructed some sort

1075
00:50:57,140 --> 00:50:53,760
of robot this robot was called palace

1076
00:50:58,340 --> 00:50:57,150
palace was surrounding everyday the

1077
00:51:01,010 --> 00:50:58,350
island of Malta

1078
00:51:04,430 --> 00:51:01,020
and whenever someone want to visit Malta

1079
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:04,440
who was not accepted there so Tallis the

1080
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:07,170
robot shot the enemy or whatever was to

1081
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:10,050
visitor down he could not reach Malta

1082
00:51:15,710 --> 00:51:12,930
so it's mythology of course but how did

1083
00:51:18,110 --> 00:51:15,720
they invent a sort of robot who

1084
00:51:20,330 --> 00:51:18,120
surrounds the island of Malta and and

1085
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:20,340
avoids that enemies can come to the

1086
00:51:25,190 --> 00:51:22,170
island let's continue this discussion

1087
00:51:29,060 --> 00:51:25,200
among a fascinating debate with Erich

1088
00:51:38,620 --> 00:51:29,070
von Daniken and David Halpern on ancient

1089
00:51:47,230 --> 00:51:42,279
thank you for listening to GCS

1090
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attack of the rock AIDS has been

1091
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well-received by critics and readers

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alike it's a thrill a minute story

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you'll never forget a former US military

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intelligence officer is haunted by

1095
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intense dreams about a beautiful woman

1096
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pleading for his help after a terrible

1097
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battle in outer space but the dreams

1098
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turn out to be true and thrust him into

1099
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1100
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1101
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welcome back into the para cast the gold

1140
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standard of paranormal radio and now

1141
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:13,260
here's Jane Steinberg we continue with

1142
00:54:19,340 --> 00:54:16,170
Erich von däniken and David Halpern and

1143
00:54:21,910 --> 00:54:19,350
this is a fascinating discussion going

1144
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:21,920
back and forth into myths and legends

1145
00:54:27,740 --> 00:54:25,290
biblical texts trying to see what really

1146
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:27,750
happened let's point out something to

1147
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:30,090
when we mentioned fiction writing people

1148
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:32,370
who write science fiction for example we

1149
00:54:38,870 --> 00:54:36,330
imagine what things will be like decades

1150
00:54:41,260 --> 00:54:38,880
hundreds thousands of years from now how

1151
00:54:44,270 --> 00:54:41,270
society will change what kind of

1152
00:54:47,330 --> 00:54:44,280
technology will exist I would certainly

1153
00:54:49,700 --> 00:54:47,340
think that any intelligent people even

1154
00:54:52,790 --> 00:54:49,710
those who aren't as sophisticated as we

1155
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:52,800
are with technology could imagine in

1156
00:54:55,900 --> 00:54:55,530
their own way what the future might

1157
00:54:59,300 --> 00:54:55,910
bring

1158
00:55:01,370 --> 00:54:59,310
David what is the question here I just

1159
00:55:03,980 --> 00:55:01,380
want your comment about that the point

1160
00:55:06,230 --> 00:55:03,990
you know being here that if someone's

1161
00:55:08,660 --> 00:55:06,240
writing a work of fiction regardless of

1162
00:55:10,550 --> 00:55:08,670
what you're they live in they can

1163
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:10,560
certainly imagine what the future might

1164
00:55:16,820 --> 00:55:13,890
be like or things that aren't invented

1165
00:55:18,860 --> 00:55:16,830
what they may be like yeah I think there

1166
00:55:21,650 --> 00:55:18,870
are limits to how much they can get

1167
00:55:26,210 --> 00:55:21,660
beyond their own culture and the

1168
00:55:31,780 --> 00:55:26,220
realities of that culture so I think we

1169
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:31,790
have to try to ask how could these myths

1170
00:55:40,070 --> 00:55:36,090
have been reflections of what was

1171
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:40,080
people's earthly reality Tarek talks

1172
00:55:46,810 --> 00:55:42,210
about Giants and chariots of the gods

1173
00:55:50,210 --> 00:55:46,820
that he he writes on one point that

1174
00:55:52,910 --> 00:55:50,220
Giants haunt the pages of almost all

1175
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:52,920
ancient books so they must have existed

1176
00:55:57,890 --> 00:55:55,410
I'm not sure if I would agree they haunt

1177
00:55:59,810 --> 00:55:57,900
the pages of almost all ancient books

1178
00:56:02,330 --> 00:55:59,820
but I certainly think it's a common

1179
00:56:03,410 --> 00:56:02,340
theme but suppose I were to say that

1180
00:56:07,750 --> 00:56:03,420
John

1181
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:07,760
ants are part of our our reality how so

1182
00:56:14,180 --> 00:56:11,490
because we have memory traces of when we

1183
00:56:18,940 --> 00:56:14,190
were very small we were surrounded by

1184
00:56:22,809 --> 00:56:18,950
giants who came to attend to us fade us

1185
00:56:25,490 --> 00:56:22,819
protected us changed our diapers of

1186
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:25,500
course they were giants only by

1187
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:29,130
comparison to our smallness but if you

1188
00:56:35,510 --> 00:56:31,770
think about it any giant is only a giant

1189
00:56:38,329 --> 00:56:35,520
by comparison to something else why

1190
00:56:41,839 --> 00:56:38,339
would this not be a perfectly

1191
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:41,849
satisfactory explanation of why people

1192
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:46,530
tend to believe in Giants well if you

1193
00:56:51,740 --> 00:56:49,410
accept this then we at the same time we

1194
00:56:52,460 --> 00:56:51,750
say that the Bible is telling us

1195
00:56:55,609 --> 00:56:52,470
nonsense

1196
00:56:59,420 --> 00:56:55,619
because in the Bible they say that they

1197
00:57:02,150 --> 00:56:59,430
created Giants so they tell us nonsense

1198
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:02,160
in the Bible or for example again in the

1199
00:57:08,390 --> 00:57:04,650
fifth book of the Mahabharata the Mosel

1200
00:57:11,450 --> 00:57:08,400
Apoorva they say then on the firmament

1201
00:57:15,109 --> 00:57:11,460
and clearly they say firmament not sky

1202
00:57:17,870 --> 00:57:15,119
not heaven firmament three cities came

1203
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:17,880
together they say it because Arjuna was

1204
00:57:24,980 --> 00:57:20,490
product there and this text was

1205
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:24,990
translated in the year 1988 by professor

1206
00:57:33,230 --> 00:57:29,730
dr. Chandra Roy and at that time in 1988

1207
00:57:36,260 --> 00:57:33,240
something like spaceships or even mother

1208
00:57:39,470 --> 00:57:36,270
spaceships did not exist and he

1209
00:57:41,180 --> 00:57:39,480
translates then the three cities came

1210
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:41,190
together in the firmament

1211
00:57:49,700 --> 00:57:44,010
so what science fiction is this really

1212
00:57:52,819 --> 00:57:49,710
fantastic we may be moving toward the

1213
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:52,829
heart of the dispute which is is myth

1214
00:57:59,960 --> 00:57:55,410
the same thing as nonsense

1215
00:58:03,170 --> 00:57:59,970
I would submit no no no no in my eyes

1216
00:58:06,559 --> 00:58:03,180
myth is not nonsense meat contains a lot

1217
00:58:09,890 --> 00:58:06,569
of imagination and fantasy and stories

1218
00:58:13,579 --> 00:58:09,900
which could be nonsense but meat always

1219
00:58:15,500 --> 00:58:13,589
had more something happened and then

1220
00:58:17,309 --> 00:58:15,510
later after centuries or even thousands

1221
00:58:20,489 --> 00:58:17,319
of you the humans could remember

1222
00:58:23,269 --> 00:58:20,499
and it was and they added all kind of

1223
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:23,279
fantasy to make it explainable for them

1224
00:58:32,670 --> 00:58:28,690
is that the core was true is that the

1225
00:58:37,829 --> 00:58:32,680
only way miss can be said to be other

1226
00:58:41,819 --> 00:58:37,839
than nonsense does it have to be in its

1227
00:58:44,729 --> 00:58:41,829
core a description an accurate

1228
00:58:48,630 --> 00:58:44,739
description of something in reality now

1229
00:58:51,229 --> 00:58:48,640
my the suggestion I've made about Giants

1230
00:58:53,579 --> 00:58:51,239
of what if we believe in Giants we are

1231
00:58:57,469 --> 00:58:53,589
remembering something that was

1232
00:59:01,410 --> 00:58:57,479
absolutely true from our earliest days

1233
00:59:05,489 --> 00:59:01,420
but projecting it into the earliest days

1234
00:59:09,449 --> 00:59:05,499
of the human race and imagining that the

1235
00:59:14,670 --> 00:59:09,459
Giants are not just Giants by comparison

1236
00:59:18,749 --> 00:59:14,680
with our tiny infamous but Giants

1237
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:18,759
compared to a regular human being does

1238
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:22,930
it make con sense to say that we have

1239
00:59:31,549 --> 00:59:26,410
this memory trace of the real Giants of

1240
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:31,559
our past well this is certainly an

1241
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:35,170
answer which I could can understand but

1242
00:59:39,779 --> 00:59:37,930
it's not my opinion it's not only the

1243
00:59:42,719 --> 00:59:39,789
Bible who speaks about Giants were

1244
00:59:46,109 --> 00:59:42,729
created it's many many other traditions

1245
00:59:48,449 --> 00:59:46,119
who speak about giant they were war the

1246
00:59:50,969 --> 00:59:48,459
humans against some giant in Greek

1247
00:59:53,309 --> 00:59:50,979
mythology they are different as fights

1248
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:53,319
what Giants fan together fight against

1249
00:59:59,370 --> 00:59:56,650
humans and so on now it could be all

1250
01:00:02,999 --> 00:59:59,380
imagination but then all these stories

1251
01:00:04,859 --> 01:00:03,009
at the same time are lies and that's a

1252
01:00:06,509 --> 01:00:04,869
really have a problem they were all

1253
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:06,519
liars just science science fiction

1254
01:00:11,279 --> 01:00:09,130
authors you know the first people who

1255
01:00:14,549 --> 01:00:11,289
learned to write in sumerian cuneiform

1256
01:00:16,979 --> 01:00:14,559
for example only a few people were able

1257
01:00:19,979 --> 01:00:16,989
to write and writing was a high

1258
01:00:22,529 --> 01:00:19,989
something very high knowledge now I

1259
01:00:24,959 --> 01:00:22,539
cannot understand why these first

1260
01:00:28,709 --> 01:00:24,969
drivers stopped to write science fiction

1261
01:00:31,140 --> 01:00:28,719
and their priests high priests or rulers

1262
01:00:32,370 --> 01:00:31,150
or king would not tell them whether

1263
01:00:34,590 --> 01:00:32,380
which are you writing it that's not

1264
01:00:36,990 --> 01:00:34,600
reality now for example in the Gilgamesh

1265
01:00:39,300 --> 01:00:37,000
epic in the beginning and this is from

1266
01:00:42,740 --> 01:00:39,310
Sumerian writing some of the older they

1267
01:00:46,980 --> 01:00:42,750
say that the gods created a being

1268
01:00:50,370 --> 01:00:46,990
Gilgamesh he was partly human and partly

1269
01:00:51,210 --> 01:00:50,380
God so he was a mixed creature now it

1270
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:51,220
was a lie

1271
01:00:57,600 --> 01:00:53,770
the first writers in 20 from stop with

1272
01:01:01,020 --> 01:00:57,610
lies yeah I think were you're forcing us

1273
01:01:04,010 --> 01:01:01,030
you're forcing me to confront the

1274
01:01:07,020 --> 01:01:04,020
question of truth versus lying right

1275
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:07,030
yeah and I think that's important

1276
01:01:15,810 --> 01:01:11,770
what do I when I sit down and write a

1277
01:01:20,940 --> 01:01:15,820
story write a document in the name of

1278
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:20,950
Enoch what do I think I am doing and I

1279
01:01:29,250 --> 01:01:24,010
don't know I think this is a very

1280
01:01:31,770 --> 01:01:29,260
serious psychological problem yes but if

1281
01:01:34,020 --> 01:01:31,780
you wrote would sit down and write the

1282
01:01:38,010 --> 01:01:34,030
story in the egg in the name of you know

1283
01:01:41,580 --> 01:01:38,020
in the I form in the first-person you do

1284
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:41,590
as if you would be anak you write as if

1285
01:01:47,070 --> 01:01:43,090
it would be it you know then you are

1286
01:01:49,020 --> 01:01:47,080
simply a liar you know what here this is

1287
01:01:50,070 --> 01:01:49,030
something that happens in fiction now I

1288
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:50,080
don't know if there's an ancient

1289
01:01:57,350 --> 01:01:52,570
equivalent that you have a series of

1290
01:02:01,380 --> 01:01:57,360
stories and you have a unified name and

1291
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:01,390
that name you get different riders who

1292
01:02:06,930 --> 01:02:03,970
are hacks or hired to write under that

1293
01:02:10,050 --> 01:02:06,940
name and for example we have the pulp

1294
01:02:12,030 --> 01:02:10,060
novels featuring the shadow that were

1295
01:02:16,100 --> 01:02:12,040
written under one name but several

1296
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:16,110
different authors wrote those stories so

1297
01:02:22,830 --> 01:02:18,970
couldn't we think here that stories

1298
01:02:24,690 --> 01:02:22,840
written 2,000 years ago as part of a

1299
01:02:27,300 --> 01:02:24,700
series of stories they could have

1300
01:02:28,890 --> 01:02:27,310
brought in different people to write

1301
01:02:29,390 --> 01:02:28,900
those stories what difference would it

1302
01:02:32,790 --> 01:02:29,400
make

1303
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:32,800
well you cannot exclude this but just

1304
01:02:36,990 --> 01:02:34,810
imagine some thousands of years ago

1305
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:37,000
yes different people you have to unite

1306
01:02:41,730 --> 01:02:39,490
them to write the story like today

1307
01:02:44,100 --> 01:02:41,740
science fiction novelist write together

1308
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:44,110
but we are speaking of an episode which

1309
01:02:47,170 --> 01:02:44,690
is thousand

1310
01:02:48,790 --> 01:02:47,180
years back there were only a few writers

1311
01:02:53,650 --> 01:02:48,800
and they start to write science fiction

1312
01:02:58,079 --> 01:02:53,660
story I don't believe a word of it yeah

1313
01:03:02,230 --> 01:02:58,089
the question becomes what do engine

1314
01:03:05,849 --> 01:03:02,240
storytellers like Homer like the author

1315
01:03:09,569 --> 01:03:05,859
of the epic of gilgamesh what is their

1316
01:03:12,550 --> 01:03:09,579
consciousness of what they're doing I

1317
01:03:15,099 --> 01:03:12,560
mean I would assume you are not going to

1318
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:15,109
say that all the things that happen in

1319
01:03:22,780 --> 01:03:18,530
Homer's Odyssey like the giant

1320
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:22,790
Polyphemus eating Odysseus is companions

1321
01:03:27,250 --> 01:03:25,130
I assume you're not going to say that

1322
01:03:30,910 --> 01:03:27,260
all of the that those stories really

1323
01:03:33,819 --> 01:03:30,920
happened as the scholar of events so now

1324
01:03:35,740 --> 01:03:33,829
of course okay guys we're gonna break

1325
01:03:37,569 --> 01:03:35,750
here and we'll continue with our

1326
01:03:47,190 --> 01:03:37,579
discussion in just a few moments with

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precious Mills can you be sure you

1353
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purchased the right product

1354
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did you receive proper advice but were

1355
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you stunned by one of these companies

1356
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Miles Franklin has been in business for

1357
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29 years without receiving any material

1358
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customer or regulatory complaints ever

1359
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maintaining an A+ Better Business Bureau

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rating and residing in Minnesota the

1361
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only state in America that regulates the

1362
01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:16,609
precious metals industry making doing

1363
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business in precious metals with Miles

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Franklin the safest choice Bar None call

1365
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us at eight six six four eight five four

1366
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three four six and let us review your

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portfolio at no commitment whatsoever

1368
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again that's eight six six four eight

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five four three four six get the peace

1370
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of mind you deserve in working with the

1371
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precious metals company with the

1372
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:37,790
reputation like - Franklin again that's

1373
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eight six six four eight five four three

1374
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four six miles Franklin precious metals

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the name you can trust

1376
01:05:53,710 --> 01:05:51,490
hi this is Ted Anderson I'm here to tell

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01:05:55,750 --> 01:05:53,720
you about GC and telecare dot-com

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1390
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high cholesterol levels may not be fully

1391
01:06:28,270 --> 01:06:27,740
detected by you but the symptoms are

1392
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:28,280
there

1393
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:30,410
loss of energy blood sugar spikes and

1394
01:06:34,630 --> 01:06:32,690
drops poor circulation and irregular

1395
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heartbeat are just a few of these that

1396
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can alert you that something is wrong

1397
01:06:40,660 --> 01:06:38,690
hear how heart and body extract is

1398
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making a difference in thousands of

1399
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1400
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pressure has normalized my diabetes has

1401
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1402
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:49,280
now how much healthy I look and I'm

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committed with how much healthy I feel I

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01:06:55,300 --> 01:06:53,150
recommend hard body extract to everyone

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anybody over 40 in the North American

1406
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1407
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1408
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1412
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1417
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1420
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1421
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perfect for your bug out bag or storing

1423
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in your vehicle give yourself and your

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01:07:41,740 --> 01:07:39,440
loved ones the excitement and tradition

1425
01:07:43,810 --> 01:07:41,750
of slingbow a new frontier and archery

1426
01:07:46,390 --> 01:07:43,820
and truly modern twist on this primitive

1427
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survival tool feel the thrill only at

1428
01:07:54,670 --> 01:07:52,250
slingbow comm we'd like to hear from you

1429
01:07:57,820 --> 01:07:54,680
if you have a comment or question about

1430
01:08:01,150 --> 01:07:57,830
the para cast sent it to news at the

1431
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:01,160
para cast com that's news at the para

1432
01:08:06,700 --> 01:08:04,010
cast calm and don't forget to visit our

1433
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:06,710
famous para cast community forums at

1434
01:08:14,140 --> 01:08:11,930
forum dot the para cast comm Erich von

1435
01:08:16,180 --> 01:08:14,150
Daniken has to go shortly but we have a

1436
01:08:20,829 --> 01:08:16,190
lot to talk about with David Halpern so

1437
01:08:23,380 --> 01:08:20,839
let's continue with that Eric yes go

1438
01:08:25,870 --> 01:08:23,390
ahead please any further comments as you

1439
01:08:28,300 --> 01:08:25,880
know I I have published so far forty

1440
01:08:31,210 --> 01:08:28,310
books and in these forty books I tried

1441
01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:31,220
to bring the case forward that our

1442
01:08:35,230 --> 01:08:33,250
planet was visited by beings

1443
01:08:37,329 --> 01:08:35,240
extraterrestrial beings some thousands

1444
01:08:40,810 --> 01:08:37,339
and thousands of years ago and I of

1445
01:08:43,599 --> 01:08:40,820
course know we can never prove this

1446
01:08:46,510 --> 01:08:43,609
today completely in a scientific manner

1447
01:08:49,329 --> 01:08:46,520
we make assumptions because of many

1448
01:08:51,490 --> 01:08:49,339
texts which different people have

1449
01:08:53,590 --> 01:08:51,500
written around the world some thousands

1450
01:08:56,380 --> 01:08:53,600
of years ago now I accept the

1451
01:08:59,200 --> 01:08:56,390
possibility that a lot of it was fantasy

1452
01:09:02,020 --> 01:08:59,210
was just science fiction but in the

1453
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:02,030
beginning of writing the writers were

1454
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:04,250
serious people and I don't think that

1455
01:09:09,910 --> 01:09:06,530
they started to write with me science

1456
01:09:12,340 --> 01:09:09,920
fiction story you see we have for exam

1457
01:09:15,190 --> 01:09:12,350
Gilgamesh AP and in the Gilgamesh epic

1458
01:09:17,620 --> 01:09:15,200
they also describe about the great flood

1459
01:09:19,750 --> 01:09:17,630
which later is part of the Bible when no

1460
01:09:22,450 --> 01:09:19,760
are constructed the shape now for

1461
01:09:25,900 --> 01:09:22,460
example in South America in today's

1462
01:09:27,940 --> 01:09:25,910
Colombia is a tribe called the Kogi I

1463
01:09:30,550 --> 01:09:27,950
wish it at the COBE they have wonderful

1464
01:09:32,830 --> 01:09:30,560
mythology and they bring the same story

1465
01:09:36,820 --> 01:09:32,840
as in the Bible as in the Gilgamesh epic

1466
01:09:39,280 --> 01:09:36,830
about the Great Flood now in South

1467
01:09:42,220 --> 01:09:39,290
America today's Colombia they had no

1468
01:09:44,530 --> 01:09:42,230
contact with Far East how do they came

1469
01:09:46,630 --> 01:09:44,540
to the same story they had the same

1470
01:09:48,670 --> 01:09:46,640
teacher and both by the way the

1471
01:09:51,070 --> 01:09:48,680
Gilgamesh epic and the ones from South

1472
01:09:53,830 --> 01:09:51,080
America from Colombia the Kogi they say

1473
01:09:57,370 --> 01:09:53,840
that after the Great Flood the God

1474
01:10:01,120 --> 01:09:57,380
regards descended again from the sky or

1475
01:10:04,330 --> 01:10:01,130
in the old Egyptian pyramid texts you

1476
01:10:08,050 --> 01:10:04,340
have so many assumptions and connections

1477
01:10:10,660 --> 01:10:08,060
which stairways to heaven going up to

1478
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:10,670
heaven the father all wishes to go to

1479
01:10:16,690 --> 01:10:13,730
the next world now of course I know our

1480
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:16,700
today's scientific answer they feel it

1481
01:10:22,930 --> 01:10:19,850
was just imagination they had to wish to

1482
01:10:25,150 --> 01:10:22,940
dream that alive after that they could

1483
01:10:27,550 --> 01:10:25,160
go there to other worlds and we did it I

1484
01:10:30,220 --> 01:10:27,560
understand this but they do not agree

1485
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:30,230
because the description sometimes are

1486
01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:33,410
too precise it is all pics and I rather

1487
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:36,770
prefer a modern point of view don't you

1488
01:10:42,310 --> 01:10:39,530
think though I think the logic here that

1489
01:10:44,890 --> 01:10:42,320
might come up is that you're looking for

1490
01:10:47,830 --> 01:10:44,900
a theory that can never be proven unless

1491
01:10:49,900 --> 01:10:47,840
we can find some relic of hardware from

1492
01:10:51,610 --> 01:10:49,910
the past yet we're just making

1493
01:10:52,990 --> 01:10:51,620
assumptions we don't know what might

1494
01:10:55,170 --> 01:10:53,000
have happened this doesn't mean that

1495
01:10:56,710 --> 01:10:55,180
we've never been visited by

1496
01:10:58,510 --> 01:10:56,720
extraterrestrials it doesn't mean

1497
01:11:01,720 --> 01:10:58,520
there's no UFO mystery today where

1498
01:11:06,340 --> 01:11:01,730
people see strange things that many will

1499
01:11:07,870 --> 01:11:06,350
theorize are here from other worlds nor

1500
01:11:10,180 --> 01:11:07,880
does it mean that there isn't the

1501
01:11:13,390 --> 01:11:10,190
possibility that those visitations have

1502
01:11:15,550 --> 01:11:13,400
happened for thousands of years and that

1503
01:11:18,630 --> 01:11:15,560
there might have been interactions the

1504
01:11:21,300 --> 01:11:18,640
key here is what we do 2,000 years later

1505
01:11:23,350 --> 01:11:21,310
except make a lot of elaborate guesses

1506
01:11:27,129 --> 01:11:23,360
on text and

1507
01:11:30,060 --> 01:11:27,139
revised over and over again over the

1508
01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:30,070
centuries where do we go from here Eric

1509
01:11:36,310 --> 01:11:33,770
well we have to try to look at some of

1510
01:11:39,129 --> 01:11:36,320
these texts with modern eyes we have to

1511
01:11:41,979 --> 01:11:39,139
change the spirit of time we all are

1512
01:11:44,530 --> 01:11:41,989
believers in God and I mean really true

1513
01:11:47,820 --> 01:11:44,540
believers in God and then we find in the

1514
01:11:50,620 --> 01:11:47,830
old texts some stories which you can not

1515
01:11:53,740 --> 01:11:50,630
assumption of bringing connection with

1516
01:11:56,379 --> 01:11:53,750
the real God it would be scary true God

1517
01:11:59,050 --> 01:11:56,389
in a fiery chariots flying around with

1518
01:12:02,740 --> 01:11:59,060
smoke and fire so we have to look for

1519
01:12:05,140 --> 01:12:02,750
new possible explanations to change the

1520
01:12:08,050 --> 01:12:05,150
spirit of time and I fully agree with

1521
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:08,060
you just because of all traditions all

1522
01:12:13,570 --> 01:12:11,570
books we will never be able to finally

1523
01:12:15,879 --> 01:12:13,580
prove that extraterrestrials were here

1524
01:12:18,879 --> 01:12:15,889
some thousands of years ago we make ups

1525
01:12:21,310 --> 01:12:18,889
assumptions correct but one day we

1526
01:12:24,490 --> 01:12:21,320
probably will find an extraterrestrial

1527
01:12:26,979 --> 01:12:24,500
object maybe we have already an

1528
01:12:30,370 --> 01:12:26,989
extraterrestrial object or even many of

1529
01:12:33,820 --> 01:12:30,380
them but because of religion we cannot

1530
01:12:36,490 --> 01:12:33,830
go close just to mention the arc of the

1531
01:12:38,590 --> 01:12:36,500
governance of the old Bible the arc of

1532
01:12:42,430 --> 01:12:38,600
the government is an object which has

1533
01:12:45,609 --> 01:12:42,440
come from God and the inside of it now

1534
01:12:47,260 --> 01:12:45,619
today we know that the rest of the arc

1535
01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:47,270
of the government is in the so-called

1536
01:12:54,550 --> 01:12:51,290
Church of the Holy Virgin Mary in assume

1537
01:12:56,890 --> 01:12:54,560
a cube is a city in Ethiopia that's a

1538
01:12:59,709 --> 01:12:56,900
long story I cannot explain it now how

1539
01:13:03,120 --> 01:12:59,719
from Jerusalem it went to Ethiopia now

1540
01:13:06,700 --> 01:13:03,130
the two days Pope of the Orthodox Church

1541
01:13:10,120 --> 01:13:06,710
said in interview two years ago in to a

1542
01:13:13,870 --> 01:13:10,130
German newspaper that he saw the art of

1543
01:13:17,020 --> 01:13:13,880
the government and it is not human so

1544
01:13:19,750 --> 01:13:17,030
maybe we have an object on earth or many

1545
01:13:22,270 --> 01:13:19,760
objects of Earth but we don't know them

1546
01:13:24,939 --> 01:13:22,280
except a few people we only have a few

1547
01:13:26,979 --> 01:13:24,949
minutes left before Eric leaves are

1548
01:13:29,680 --> 01:13:26,989
stated so we'll continue after that but

1549
01:13:31,510 --> 01:13:29,690
do you have a quick reaction I don't

1550
01:13:34,410 --> 01:13:31,520
think anything beyond what I've already

1551
01:13:37,220 --> 01:13:34,420
said Jean in a way I feel a bit awkward

1552
01:13:40,610 --> 01:13:37,230
continuing the conversation after our

1553
01:13:44,630 --> 01:13:40,620
those because I may make statements that

1554
01:13:46,910 --> 01:13:44,640
he would want to respond to and will not

1555
01:13:48,650 --> 01:13:46,920
have the opportunity I think there are

1556
01:13:49,940 --> 01:13:48,660
other issues we can talk about without

1557
01:13:52,700 --> 01:13:49,950
doing that fair enough

1558
01:13:55,100 --> 01:13:52,710
yeah that I would like to say Eric that

1559
01:13:56,750 --> 01:13:55,110
there are some things I agree with in

1560
01:14:01,130 --> 01:13:56,760
what you've done and some things I

1561
01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:01,140
disagree with what I like is the way you

1562
01:14:08,630 --> 01:14:04,890
have underscored the many things we do

1563
01:14:11,330 --> 01:14:08,640
not know about antiquity it becomes too

1564
01:14:14,270 --> 01:14:11,340
easy to think everything is all neatly

1565
01:14:16,550 --> 01:14:14,280
packaged and cut and dried I know as

1566
01:14:20,060 --> 01:14:16,560
well as anybody that antiquity is full

1567
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:20,070
of mysteries but in all truth I do not

1568
01:14:27,229 --> 01:14:23,370
think your extra-terrestrial hypothesis

1569
01:14:30,590 --> 01:14:27,239
is a viable way to approach them we have

1570
01:14:33,080 --> 01:14:30,600
to look for other ways I already

1571
01:14:35,420 --> 01:14:33,090
understand your position but I don't

1572
01:14:37,310 --> 01:14:35,430
have the same opinion as you have

1573
01:14:39,229 --> 01:14:37,320
because I have different knowledge we

1574
01:14:43,790 --> 01:14:39,239
both have people of knowledge we have

1575
01:14:45,860 --> 01:14:43,800
definitive education etc I know that we

1576
01:14:48,320 --> 01:14:45,870
have been visited and I know it from the

1577
01:14:50,390 --> 01:14:48,330
many all traditions worldwide and of

1578
01:14:54,140 --> 01:14:50,400
course by the way in the introduction of

1579
01:14:57,020 --> 01:14:54,150
this discussion it was said that you are

1580
01:15:01,700 --> 01:14:57,030
a man who has to signalize a charity

1581
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:01,710
there okay now today soap so called the

1582
01:15:07,970 --> 01:15:05,210
reasonable people do not believe in UFOs

1583
01:15:11,930 --> 01:15:07,980
all through there is a lot of evidence

1584
01:15:14,900 --> 01:15:11,940
for you are forced so what do we do one

1585
01:15:18,500 --> 01:15:14,910
part of mankind seems to be reasonable

1586
01:15:21,170 --> 01:15:18,510
UFO is nonsense the other part are also

1587
01:15:23,690 --> 01:15:21,180
reasonable but they are called the

1588
01:15:26,450 --> 01:15:23,700
idiots the stupids the believers in UFOs

1589
01:15:29,660 --> 01:15:26,460
but you are forced to exist I have a

1590
01:15:33,380 --> 01:15:29,670
similar opinion in concern in the past I

1591
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:33,390
believe because of my information that

1592
01:15:37,580 --> 01:15:34,890
we will visited by beings from outer

1593
01:15:40,970 --> 01:15:37,590
space though many reasonable person say

1594
01:15:43,460 --> 01:15:40,980
this is nonsense and I fully understand

1595
01:15:46,490 --> 01:15:43,470
their position but we don't have the

1596
01:15:50,140 --> 01:15:46,500
same knowledge at the same time in our

1597
01:15:53,010 --> 01:15:50,150
next segment with David Halpern

1598
01:15:56,140 --> 01:15:53,020
discuss more about his opinions and

1599
01:15:59,860 --> 01:15:56,150
focus more on what he thinks about the

1600
01:16:01,720 --> 01:15:59,870
UFO mystery about UFO reality and what

1601
01:16:04,030 --> 01:16:01,730
he thinks may be the cause of the

1602
01:16:05,260 --> 01:16:04,040
phenomenon I think that's a good place

1603
01:16:07,899 --> 01:16:05,270
to stop right now

1604
01:16:09,700 --> 01:16:07,909
Erich von däniken do you have a website

1605
01:16:14,020 --> 01:16:09,710
if people want to check out what you do

1606
01:16:16,360 --> 01:16:14,030
on going yes well just go on Erich von

1607
01:16:18,610 --> 01:16:16,370
däniken then you find by my home page

1608
01:16:20,350 --> 01:16:18,620
and whatever Thank You Erich von

1609
01:16:22,750 --> 01:16:20,360
Daniken's hopefully we can have you back

1610
01:16:25,479 --> 01:16:22,760
to a future for longer time thank you

1611
01:16:28,620 --> 01:16:25,489
bye bye ciao David Halpern will continue

1612
01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:28,630
you're in the peracare

1613
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:42,200
you are listening to GPS

1614
01:16:50,540 --> 01:16:48,570
visit GCN live.com today water is the

1615
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:50,550
single most important thing your body

1616
01:16:55,790 --> 01:16:52,650
needs so you want to be sure it's the

1617
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defender com hi this is Don Ecker and

1717
01:20:57,679 --> 01:20:55,769
you are tuned in to the para cast let me

1718
01:21:00,410 --> 01:20:57,689
tell you what you're gonna hear stuff

1719
01:21:01,950 --> 01:21:00,420
here that you probably won't hear

1720
01:21:06,420 --> 01:21:01,960
anywhere else

1721
01:21:08,610 --> 01:21:06,430
here that George Noory so David Halpern

1722
01:21:10,620 --> 01:21:08,620
continues and for the first half of the

1723
01:21:12,709 --> 01:21:10,630
para cast we had erich von daniken and

1724
01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:12,719
they restricted us to half the show

1725
01:21:18,780 --> 01:21:16,330
because they have him under a very tight

1726
01:21:20,970 --> 01:21:18,790
leash to the number of things he could

1727
01:21:22,380 --> 01:21:20,980
do but we hope to have him back for more

1728
01:21:25,440 --> 01:21:22,390
time in the future this has turned out

1729
01:21:28,290 --> 01:21:25,450
to be real fascinating debate with David

1730
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:28,300
Halpern I think would be nice for our

1731
01:21:34,610 --> 01:21:30,010
listeners now to know more about you and

1732
01:21:37,530 --> 01:21:34,620
how you became so knowledgeable about

1733
01:21:41,479 --> 01:21:37,540
biblical history could you kind of give

1734
01:21:46,290 --> 01:21:41,489
us a bit of your background David yeah I

1735
01:21:50,040 --> 01:21:46,300
began reading the Bible when I was 12

1736
01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:50,050
and became fascinated with it and kept

1737
01:21:56,760 --> 01:21:54,130
on reading it and kept on studying it at

1738
01:22:01,830 --> 01:21:56,770
about the same time I became fascinated

1739
01:22:04,760 --> 01:22:01,840
by UFOs and was like you g---men like

1740
01:22:09,900 --> 01:22:04,770
many of us in those days a teen

1741
01:22:12,890 --> 01:22:09,910
ufologists I gave up ufology when I went

1742
01:22:15,450 --> 01:22:12,900
to college I began to learn ancient

1743
01:22:18,690 --> 01:22:15,460
languages pursued my knowledge of the

1744
01:22:22,979 --> 01:22:18,700
Bible but found I kept coming back to

1745
01:22:26,090 --> 01:22:22,989
UFO related topics like the vision in

1746
01:22:28,979 --> 01:22:26,100
the first chapter of Ezekiel and

1747
01:22:33,030 --> 01:22:28,989
traditions like the one Erich referred

1748
01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:33,040
to about the Enochs ascension to heaven

1749
01:22:41,340 --> 01:22:38,410
and stories of otherworldly journeys and

1750
01:22:45,780 --> 01:22:41,350
heavenly a sense which I came to realize

1751
01:22:49,709 --> 01:22:45,790
after a while were my own ufology in a

1752
01:22:52,500 --> 01:22:49,719
more conventionally respectable guys my

1753
01:22:58,040 --> 01:22:52,510
project now is to understand not only

1754
01:23:03,300 --> 01:22:58,050
what ufos meant to me 50 some years ago

1755
01:23:08,729 --> 01:23:03,310
but what they mean to all of us and how

1756
01:23:11,340 --> 01:23:08,739
we can stake out a third position to say

1757
01:23:15,230 --> 01:23:11,350
they are neither real vehicles flying

1758
01:23:19,160 --> 01:23:15,240
around the sky nor are they nonsense

1759
01:23:21,230 --> 01:23:19,170
when we look at Furies like ancient

1760
01:23:24,380 --> 01:23:21,240
astronauts and obviously erich von

1761
01:23:26,780 --> 01:23:24,390
daniken was one of the later people to

1762
01:23:31,460 --> 01:23:26,790
do that we had Brinsley Lepore trench we

1763
01:23:33,680 --> 01:23:31,470
had Desmond Leslie and others where did

1764
01:23:36,070 --> 01:23:33,690
people decide to get this kind of

1765
01:23:38,810 --> 01:23:36,080
connection was because they're reaching

1766
01:23:41,300 --> 01:23:38,820
into UFO history saying well if we're

1767
01:23:43,690 --> 01:23:41,310
being visited now by UFOs how far back

1768
01:23:46,270 --> 01:23:43,700
does it go is that what led them to

1769
01:23:49,460 --> 01:23:46,280
theorize about ancient astronauts I

1770
01:23:52,460 --> 01:23:49,470
don't know and it's a really really

1771
01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:52,470
really good question I don't know if

1772
01:23:59,570 --> 01:23:55,170
you're familiar gene and I can can turn

1773
01:24:01,700 --> 01:23:59,580
on the on reaching now for the for the

1774
01:24:05,120 --> 01:24:01,710
actual document if I turn on the camera

1775
01:24:07,430 --> 01:24:05,130
I can show it to you that I'm holding up

1776
01:24:10,370 --> 01:24:07,440
here can you see it it's an article

1777
01:24:14,090 --> 01:24:10,380
called the four faced visitors of

1778
01:24:16,820 --> 01:24:14,100
Ezekiel you just have to move it to what

1779
01:24:17,630 --> 01:24:16,830
my left would be there I see it I see it

1780
01:24:22,760 --> 01:24:17,640
now

1781
01:24:25,430 --> 01:24:22,770
it's authored by Orton Arthur Orton it

1782
01:24:30,380 --> 01:24:25,440
was published in analog science fact

1783
01:24:34,310 --> 01:24:30,390
fiction in March of 1961 it is in my

1784
01:24:37,820 --> 01:24:34,320
opinion one of the finest things ever

1785
01:24:41,270 --> 01:24:37,830
written in the ancient astronauts onra

1786
01:24:45,920 --> 01:24:41,280
by a man who as far as I know had no

1787
01:24:49,220 --> 01:24:45,930
interest in UFOs he was involved in the

1788
01:24:51,430 --> 01:24:49,230
space program when he gave the first

1789
01:24:54,770 --> 01:24:51,440
chapter of the Book of Ezekiel an

1790
01:24:59,510 --> 01:24:54,780
extremely careful reading concluding

1791
01:25:04,040 --> 01:24:59,520
that what Ezekiel was describing was the

1792
01:25:08,720 --> 01:25:04,050
visit of human like extraterrestrials

1793
01:25:12,590 --> 01:25:08,730
wearing backpack helicopters now I don't

1794
01:25:16,490 --> 01:25:12,600
agree with his conclusions and I think

1795
01:25:20,810 --> 01:25:16,500
he straight he brings out what is the

1796
01:25:24,050 --> 01:25:20,820
basic flaw of this approach but I must

1797
01:25:27,080 --> 01:25:24,060
say I have the most immense respect for

1798
01:25:29,089 --> 01:25:27,090
the care and respect with which he

1799
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:29,099
treated the Book of Ezekiel

1800
01:25:35,180 --> 01:25:31,530
and he's somebody come from completely

1801
01:25:39,229 --> 01:25:35,190
outside the UFO tradition so the

1802
01:25:43,160 --> 01:25:39,239
question you pose as to the let's call

1803
01:25:45,979 --> 01:25:43,170
it the genealogy of the whole idea of

1804
01:25:50,240 --> 01:25:45,989
ancient astronauts I think is a really

1805
01:25:53,510 --> 01:25:50,250
good one well it's certainly a viable

1806
01:25:56,990 --> 01:25:53,520
thing that theorized about but I think

1807
01:25:59,419 --> 01:25:57,000
the same problem I see here and

1808
01:26:01,310 --> 01:25:59,429
certainly what Erich von Daniken says

1809
01:26:03,260 --> 01:26:01,320
and we're not asking him we're expecting

1810
01:26:05,780 --> 01:26:03,270
him to respond since he's not here and

1811
01:26:10,580 --> 01:26:05,790
that is in general looking at this in

1812
01:26:14,060 --> 01:26:10,590
general we have these ancient documents

1813
01:26:17,990 --> 01:26:14,070
and we could reach and make them in many

1814
01:26:21,290 --> 01:26:18,000
ways express anything we want really

1815
01:26:24,020 --> 01:26:21,300
there's a wide range of interpretations

1816
01:26:26,060 --> 01:26:24,030
and I suspect in large part we're not

1817
01:26:28,419 --> 01:26:26,070
criticizing any particular religion here

1818
01:26:30,530 --> 01:26:28,429
a lot of these texts have been

1819
01:26:33,830 --> 01:26:30,540
manipulated over the centuries for

1820
01:26:34,600 --> 01:26:33,840
political reasons as much as anything

1821
01:26:37,910 --> 01:26:34,610
else

1822
01:26:41,030 --> 01:26:37,920
yeah manipulated in the sense of being

1823
01:26:44,839 --> 01:26:41,040
used for political reasons

1824
01:26:47,780 --> 01:26:44,849
sure yeah cause I think that there is a

1825
01:26:50,030 --> 01:26:47,790
limit to how they've been changed a lot

1826
01:26:52,910 --> 01:26:50,040
of people work on the assumption that

1827
01:26:57,589 --> 01:26:52,920
there's been so many errors and copying

1828
01:27:00,200 --> 01:26:57,599
so much so much insertion in these texts

1829
01:27:02,660 --> 01:27:00,210
so much mistranslation that we really

1830
01:27:05,629 --> 01:27:02,670
can't know what they originally said I

1831
01:27:09,350 --> 01:27:05,639
think this is a little bit too skeptical

1832
01:27:13,250 --> 01:27:09,360
I think we have I mean certainly for the

1833
01:27:16,870 --> 01:27:13,260
Book of Ezekiel we have a pretty good

1834
01:27:19,640 --> 01:27:16,880
sense of what that book originally said

1835
01:27:21,979 --> 01:27:19,650
there seems there seems to be very

1836
01:27:24,770 --> 01:27:21,989
little question that it that at least

1837
01:27:27,169 --> 01:27:24,780
the bulk of it was written by the person

1838
01:27:29,540 --> 01:27:27,179
it claims to be written by you know

1839
01:27:32,149 --> 01:27:29,550
there there probably are some later

1840
01:27:36,740 --> 01:27:32,159
insertions in it so I wouldn't want to

1841
01:27:40,979 --> 01:27:36,750
go too far in saying in talking about

1842
01:27:44,380 --> 01:27:40,989
our uncertainties with these texts

1843
01:27:46,209 --> 01:27:44,390
obviously there's no way ever to get the

1844
01:27:49,300 --> 01:27:46,219
full version unless we can travel back

1845
01:27:53,320 --> 01:27:49,310
through time yeah and there's no way to

1846
01:27:55,479 --> 01:27:53,330
see what really happened and that's

1847
01:27:58,990 --> 01:27:55,489
something we need to keep very clearly

1848
01:28:00,820 --> 01:27:59,000
in mind is there any way at all to be

1849
01:28:02,410 --> 01:28:00,830
able to focus more in the original

1850
01:28:05,950 --> 01:28:02,420
meaning because that has to be what's

1851
01:28:09,280 --> 01:28:05,960
closest to the truth yeah I mean we can

1852
01:28:13,180 --> 01:28:09,290
try say to put the Book of Ezekiel in

1853
01:28:16,030 --> 01:28:13,190
its ancient context let me let me hold

1854
01:28:18,700 --> 01:28:16,040
somethin else up if I could if I can

1855
01:28:20,709 --> 01:28:18,710
grab and I'll turn the timer on yeah

1856
01:28:22,990 --> 01:28:20,719
okay he's going to show me something

1857
01:28:28,240 --> 01:28:23,000
which will I describe of course we don't

1858
01:28:29,979 --> 01:28:28,250
have the ability to present a video

1859
01:28:32,410 --> 01:28:29,989
version of this show although this might

1860
01:28:34,240 --> 01:28:32,420
be the one time we could possibly do it

1861
01:28:36,220 --> 01:28:34,250
or maybe we can have David back to do

1862
01:28:37,720 --> 01:28:36,230
that okay what are you showing I think

1863
01:28:40,300 --> 01:28:37,730
it's better if you move it farther away

1864
01:28:43,450 --> 01:28:40,310
from the camera because there's a bear

1865
01:28:45,850 --> 01:28:43,460
yeah even farther even farther right and

1866
01:28:48,130 --> 01:28:45,860
now let me see the other page that looks

1867
01:28:53,439 --> 01:28:48,140
like a coin or something right it is a

1868
01:28:55,990 --> 01:28:53,449
coin in the 6th century BCE which is to

1869
01:29:00,419 --> 01:28:56,000
say a little bit later than Ezekiel and

1870
01:29:04,570 --> 01:29:00,429
it shows a bearded apparently a God

1871
01:29:08,410 --> 01:29:04,580
sitting on a wheeled throne and the

1872
01:29:10,240 --> 01:29:08,420
three there are three Hebrew letters in

1873
01:29:13,990 --> 01:29:10,250
the ancient Hebrew script the letters

1874
01:29:18,160 --> 01:29:14,000
your cave of which in English would be Y

1875
01:29:22,110 --> 01:29:18,170
H V and these are the first three

1876
01:29:24,850 --> 01:29:22,120
letters of the sacred name of God Yahweh

1877
01:29:28,709 --> 01:29:24,860
so that if this does seem to be a

1878
01:29:32,439 --> 01:29:28,719
picture of the biblical God Yahweh and

1879
01:29:36,520 --> 01:29:32,449
he's sitting on a throne with you see

1880
01:29:38,200 --> 01:29:36,530
very prominent wheel did you still want

1881
01:29:43,060 --> 01:29:38,210
to look at this or could I put this down

1882
01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:43,070
no you could put it down now yeah so are

1883
01:29:50,110 --> 01:29:46,730
we seeing something actually I said 6th

1884
01:29:51,970 --> 01:29:50,120
century it's I see it's 5th century is

1885
01:29:55,210 --> 01:29:51,980
this

1886
01:29:58,510 --> 01:29:55,220
Wingard chariot the chariot has wings as

1887
01:30:01,420 --> 01:29:58,520
well as wheels is this Wingard chariot

1888
01:30:04,840 --> 01:30:01,430
the thing that ezekiel describes in the

1889
01:30:07,570 --> 01:30:04,850
in the first chapter of his book and i

1890
01:30:11,650 --> 01:30:07,580
think there has to be some connection

1891
01:30:14,260 --> 01:30:11,660
and yet it's not quite identical i mean

1892
01:30:16,570 --> 01:30:14,270
we can see one wheel and presumably

1893
01:30:19,750 --> 01:30:16,580
there's a second wheel at the other end

1894
01:30:22,780 --> 01:30:19,760
of the axle an ancient chariot had two

1895
01:30:25,240 --> 01:30:22,790
wheels let me break it here will

1896
01:30:27,370 --> 01:30:25,250
describe the chariot and what that might

1897
01:30:29,950 --> 01:30:27,380
mean in our next segment with david

1898
01:30:41,260 --> 01:30:29,960
Halperin I'm Jean Steinberg you're in

1899
01:30:43,270 --> 01:30:41,270
the peracare thank you for listening to

1900
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1912
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1913
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a critically acclaimed success and now

1914
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there's the coming of the protectors a

1915
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former military intelligence man is

1916
01:31:29,709 --> 01:31:27,650
contacted by a space woman in a dream a

1917
01:31:31,870 --> 01:31:29,719
dream that turns out to be a nightmare

1918
01:31:33,580 --> 01:31:31,880
because evil forces on our distant

1919
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planet are planning to conquer the earth

1920
01:31:38,709 --> 01:31:36,260
this is gripping science fiction of the

1921
01:31:40,779 --> 01:31:38,719
classic kind attack of the rock hides

1922
01:31:42,850 --> 01:31:40,789
and the coming of the protectors find

1923
01:31:47,950 --> 01:31:42,860
out more at Rocko it's calm that's

1924
01:31:50,049 --> 01:31:47,960
Rockets are Ock oids calm hear that

1925
01:31:51,640 --> 01:31:50,059
that's the sound of a house being

1926
01:31:54,520 --> 01:31:51,650
trashed while a gang of thieves

1927
01:31:57,459 --> 01:31:54,530
ransacked the place and what they don't

1928
01:31:59,709 --> 01:31:57,469
steal will be destroyed this year

1929
01:32:02,500 --> 01:31:59,719
resolve not to be the next victim of a

1930
01:32:03,910 --> 01:32:02,510
break-in go to fake tv.com and discover

1931
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a device that creates the illusion

1932
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someone inside is watching TV even when

1933
01:32:11,200 --> 01:32:09,139
you're miles away security is a mindset

1934
01:32:13,930 --> 01:32:11,210
and fake TV should be part of your

1935
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security solution be vigilant but not

1936
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fearful fake tv.com anytime anyplace

1937
01:32:23,680 --> 01:32:21,050
anywhere radio remains the most intimate

1938
01:32:26,620 --> 01:32:23,690
of all forms of media at home at work in

1939
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the car on smartphones over 90% of

1940
01:32:30,640 --> 01:32:28,699
consumers still listen to radio every

1941
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week that makes choosing radio is a

1942
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place to advertise your business one of

1943
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the best decisions you can make

1944
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they'll advertise at GCN live.com and

1945
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partner up with an experienced GCN

1946
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representative advertised at GC and

1947
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1948
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1949
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1950
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1951
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use some I store some awesome no

1952
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1953
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1954
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1955
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1956
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served life-saving ready to eat bacon

1957
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1958
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1959
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bacon calm we all know that berkey water

1960
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purification systems are the most

1961
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trusted name in water filtration as an

1962
01:33:28,350 --> 01:33:26,650
authorized Berkey dealer for over 6

1963
01:33:29,250 --> 01:33:28,360
years in serving thousands of satisfied

1964
01:33:31,650 --> 01:33:29,260
customers

1965
01:33:33,840 --> 01:33:31,660
the Berkey guy offers amazing specials

1966
01:33:35,459 --> 01:33:33,850
for berkey water filtration systems the

1967
01:33:37,500 --> 01:33:35,469
Berkey light systems include a set of

1968
01:33:39,479 --> 01:33:37,510
self-sterilizing and re cleanable black

1969
01:33:41,910 --> 01:33:39,489
purification elements that purify water

1970
01:33:44,130 --> 01:33:41,920
by removing chlorine pathogenic bacteria

1971
01:33:46,350 --> 01:33:44,140
cysts and parasites to non detectable

1972
01:33:48,420 --> 01:33:46,360
levels and remove harmful chemicals such

1973
01:33:50,250 --> 01:33:48,430
as herbicides and pesticides order the

1974
01:33:52,920 --> 01:33:50,260
Berkey light system today complete with

1975
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two black per key elements for only 231

1976
01:33:56,790 --> 01:33:54,880
dollars and the burka guy will ship your

1977
01:33:58,920 --> 01:33:56,800
order free of charge with the purchase

1978
01:34:00,930 --> 01:33:58,930
of a Berkey light the burka guy is also

1979
01:34:03,780 --> 01:34:00,940
offering a set of fluoride and arsenic

1980
01:34:05,250 --> 01:34:03,790
filters for only $39.99 that's over 30

1981
01:34:07,470 --> 01:34:05,260
percent off the retail price

1982
01:34:09,750 --> 01:34:07,480
call the Berkut guy at one eight seven

1983
01:34:11,940 --> 01:34:09,760
seven eight eight six three six five

1984
01:34:14,640 --> 01:34:11,950
three that's one eight seven seven eight

1985
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eight six three six five three or order

1986
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online at Gober Keep Calm that's Gober

1987
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Keep Calm today the answer to being in

1988
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control of your own health care is

1989
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freedom from insurance become part of a

1990
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group of self-pay patients that come

1991
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together to share in each other's

1992
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1993
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1994
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1995
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1996
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1997
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1998
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available for dental vision

1999
01:34:53,730 --> 01:34:45,050
and pharmacy go to Liberty on-call org

2000
01:35:00,250 --> 01:34:56,860
hey this is Murray G Jones the author of

2001
01:35:02,800 --> 01:35:00,260
this book is from the future and you are

2002
01:35:14,020 --> 01:35:02,810
listening to the podcast the gold

2003
01:35:15,730 --> 01:35:14,030
standard of paranormal radio we could

2004
01:35:17,680 --> 01:35:15,740
take you with David Halpern earlier on

2005
01:35:19,060 --> 01:35:17,690
we had Erich von däniken for the first

2006
01:35:20,530 --> 01:35:19,070
half of the show and there are hopes

2007
01:35:23,430 --> 01:35:20,540
we'll have him back on in the future

2008
01:35:26,080 --> 01:35:23,440
because this was a fascinating debate

2009
01:35:27,730 --> 01:35:26,090
among two people have been doing these

2010
01:35:31,600 --> 01:35:27,740
studies for many years all right looking

2011
01:35:33,580 --> 01:35:31,610
at these chariots we assume them that's

2012
01:35:35,520 --> 01:35:33,590
a description of a physical chariot not

2013
01:35:38,620 --> 01:35:35,530
something that came from outer space

2014
01:35:41,130 --> 01:35:38,630
yeah yeah we're now working we're now

2015
01:35:45,040 --> 01:35:41,140
running a completely different scenario

2016
01:35:46,900 --> 01:35:45,050
which from from Eric's which you'll see

2017
01:35:49,900 --> 01:35:46,910
in a moment I don't totally agree with

2018
01:35:53,290 --> 01:35:49,910
either which is that what Ezekiel is

2019
01:35:54,970 --> 01:35:53,300
describing is something that would in

2020
01:35:56,530 --> 01:35:54,980
the first Senate first chapter of his

2021
01:35:59,980 --> 01:35:56,540
book something that would have been

2022
01:36:04,680 --> 01:35:59,990
familiar to people living in the ancient

2023
01:36:09,580 --> 01:36:04,690
Near East not from reality but from myth

2024
01:36:13,300 --> 01:36:09,590
from sculptures on ancient temples from

2025
01:36:18,220 --> 01:36:13,310
legends that they transmitted I mean

2026
01:36:21,840 --> 01:36:18,230
whoever minted this coin from Gaza must

2027
01:36:26,440 --> 01:36:21,850
have had an image of a bearded male God

2028
01:36:27,220 --> 01:36:26,450
riding a winged chariot with prominent

2029
01:36:30,730 --> 01:36:27,230
wheels

2030
01:36:33,520 --> 01:36:30,740
is that what Ezekiel describes and it's

2031
01:36:36,820 --> 01:36:33,530
true that what he describes has some

2032
01:36:40,870 --> 01:36:36,830
resemblance to it but it's not quite the

2033
01:36:43,210 --> 01:36:40,880
same as the keo sees four wheels they

2034
01:36:47,410 --> 01:36:43,220
seem to be sometimes on the ground

2035
01:36:49,150 --> 01:36:47,420
sometimes rising they have eyes all

2036
01:36:53,170 --> 01:36:49,160
around them

2037
01:36:56,290 --> 01:36:53,180
that's a ye-es there's something going

2038
01:36:59,950 --> 01:36:56,300
on in that first chapter of Ezekiel the

2039
01:37:01,049 --> 01:36:59,960
can't be explained simply by the Gaza

2040
01:37:04,060 --> 01:37:01,059
corn

2041
01:37:07,270 --> 01:37:04,070
similarly Ezekiel sees four living

2042
01:37:10,629 --> 01:37:07,280
creatures with four each one of which

2043
01:37:13,780 --> 01:37:10,639
has four faces the face of a of an ox

2044
01:37:18,629 --> 01:37:13,790
the face of a lion the face of an eagle

2045
01:37:25,149 --> 01:37:18,639
and the face of a human being now in

2046
01:37:30,720 --> 01:37:25,159
ancient art we know Babylonian art

2047
01:37:34,419 --> 01:37:30,730
Egyptian art we know of composite being

2048
01:37:38,830 --> 01:37:34,429
human and animal the problem is they're

2049
01:37:42,399 --> 01:37:38,840
almost always animal figures with human

2050
01:37:45,580 --> 01:37:42,409
faces the Egyptian sphinx is the best is

2051
01:37:49,149 --> 01:37:45,590
a great example or the Wingard bulls

2052
01:37:52,410 --> 01:37:49,159
with human faces or an Assyrian temples

2053
01:37:58,180 --> 01:37:52,420
there's nothing quite like Ezekiel's

2054
01:38:01,510 --> 01:37:58,190
human figures with four faces three of

2055
01:38:04,450 --> 01:38:01,520
which are animal so I don't know where

2056
01:38:09,399 --> 01:38:04,460
is he killers getting that from to try

2057
01:38:12,100 --> 01:38:09,409
to explain it purely as the art of the

2058
01:38:16,209 --> 01:38:12,110
ancient Near East emerging in his

2059
01:38:20,819 --> 01:38:16,219
fantasy seems to me inadequate but to

2060
01:38:23,530 --> 01:38:20,829
see it as extraterrestrial visitors to

2061
01:38:28,240 --> 01:38:23,540
me as a total non-starter

2062
01:38:31,180 --> 01:38:28,250
what would arcs lion Eagle face be doing

2063
01:38:34,689 --> 01:38:31,190
on extraterrestrial visitors Orton did a

2064
01:38:37,330 --> 01:38:34,699
really ingenious try effect by trying to

2065
01:38:41,049 --> 01:38:37,340
depict how Ezekiel would have envisioned

2066
01:38:45,910 --> 01:38:41,059
a man like being wearing a space helmet

2067
01:38:48,700 --> 01:38:45,920
and breathing apparatus which he thinks

2068
01:38:53,500 --> 01:38:48,710
would look like an ox or or an eagle but

2069
01:38:57,729 --> 01:38:53,510
I I come away unconvinced so what

2070
01:39:00,310 --> 01:38:57,739
exactly have we got in the first chapter

2071
01:39:02,919 --> 01:39:00,320
of Ezekiel and I must tell you that

2072
01:39:07,030 --> 01:39:02,929
after 50-plus years of studying it I

2073
01:39:09,669 --> 01:39:07,040
still don't know let me ask you to have

2074
01:39:10,209 --> 01:39:09,679
another offbeat question here we have

2075
01:39:13,750 --> 01:39:10,219
the ledge

2076
01:39:15,790 --> 01:39:13,760
of Atlantis Lemuria possible

2077
01:39:18,459 --> 01:39:15,800
civilizations that existed right here on

2078
01:39:22,719 --> 01:39:18,469
earth that were far more advanced and

2079
01:39:25,239 --> 01:39:22,729
due to whatever a worldwide Cataclysm or

2080
01:39:28,479 --> 01:39:25,249
whatever might have occurred those

2081
01:39:31,299 --> 01:39:28,489
civilizations went away yeah is it

2082
01:39:34,299 --> 01:39:31,309
possible that we're seeing here

2083
01:39:36,850 --> 01:39:34,309
descriptions of remnants of a more

2084
01:39:40,629 --> 01:39:36,860
advanced ancient civilizations to have

2085
01:39:42,609 --> 01:39:40,639
spaceships wouldn't rule it out Jean but

2086
01:39:44,620 --> 01:39:42,619
I have to say I would look in a totally

2087
01:39:46,979 --> 01:39:44,630
different direction and that's the

2088
01:39:51,959 --> 01:39:46,989
direction that Carl Jung pointed toward

2089
01:39:57,219 --> 01:39:51,969
that there is something in our shared

2090
01:40:03,390 --> 01:39:57,229
unconscious as human beings that's going

2091
01:40:06,759 --> 01:40:03,400
to erupt in visions like Ezekiel's and

2092
01:40:10,750 --> 01:40:06,769
that's where that my idea about the

2093
01:40:13,779 --> 01:40:10,760
Giants is a very is a very simplified

2094
01:40:17,620 --> 01:40:13,789
version of this that there is something

2095
01:40:21,969 --> 01:40:17,630
in our unconscious both as individuals

2096
01:40:26,109 --> 01:40:21,979
and shared that gives rise to these

2097
01:40:28,930 --> 01:40:26,119
things now I don't know if you know Greg

2098
01:40:30,790 --> 01:40:28,940
Bishop who's someone's been a theorist

2099
01:40:34,509 --> 01:40:30,800
in the UFO field for a number of years

2100
01:40:38,410 --> 01:40:34,519
and he has a co-creation theory which is

2101
01:40:42,339 --> 01:40:38,420
certainly related where when we have UFO

2102
01:40:46,029 --> 01:40:42,349
type experiences we are in part to some

2103
01:40:47,649 --> 01:40:46,039
degree creating elements of that

2104
01:40:50,129 --> 01:40:47,659
experience we're interacting with

2105
01:40:53,049 --> 01:40:50,139
something but we're also participating I

2106
01:40:57,310 --> 01:40:53,059
have no doubt that we are the main

2107
01:41:00,129 --> 01:40:57,320
creators my my own view is that when

2108
01:41:04,089 --> 01:41:00,139
that the UFO sightings that are not

2109
01:41:07,540 --> 01:41:04,099
obviously to be explained as heavenly

2110
01:41:09,819 --> 01:41:07,550
bodies or balloons or whatever or yeah I

2111
01:41:12,430 --> 01:41:09,829
mean co-creation I I wouldn't have used

2112
01:41:15,399 --> 01:41:12,440
that term but yeah it's not a bad way of

2113
01:41:17,620 --> 01:41:15,409
saying it that there is indeed something

2114
01:41:19,570 --> 01:41:17,630
out there possibly something quite

2115
01:41:22,920 --> 01:41:19,580
mundane

2116
01:41:29,830 --> 01:41:22,930
and that there is something within us

2117
01:41:32,260 --> 01:41:29,840
that creates the vision that emerges so

2118
01:41:35,680 --> 01:41:32,270
that leaves then a possible core reality

2119
01:41:40,000 --> 01:41:35,690
correct I would say a core reality

2120
01:41:41,020 --> 01:41:40,010
within us is it totally do you feel

2121
01:41:43,030 --> 01:41:41,030
within us

2122
01:41:46,450 --> 01:41:43,040
you don't feel there's anything external

2123
01:41:48,580 --> 01:41:46,460
involved in that I don't think so I

2124
01:41:53,790 --> 01:41:48,590
don't think so

2125
01:41:59,620 --> 01:41:53,800
but then I'm obliged to ask what is us

2126
01:42:06,490 --> 01:41:59,630
what is our unconscious does it as you

2127
01:42:10,600 --> 01:42:06,500
think thought does it somehow extend to

2128
01:42:14,830 --> 01:42:10,610
the entire species and here it seems to

2129
01:42:19,330 --> 01:42:14,840
me we are treading on very that very

2130
01:42:21,610 --> 01:42:19,340
obscure ground and I feel myself picking

2131
01:42:24,790 --> 01:42:21,620
my way with great as it Asia

2132
01:42:26,650 --> 01:42:24,800
oh it's certainly interesting to check

2133
01:42:30,700 --> 01:42:26,660
this out to consider all the

2134
01:42:33,730 --> 01:42:30,710
possibilities of UFO visitations but

2135
01:42:35,740 --> 01:42:33,740
then what we would also mean here if it

2136
01:42:38,890 --> 01:42:35,750
was a collective unconscious as our

2137
01:42:43,230 --> 01:42:38,900
culture changes the form and shape of

2138
01:42:47,290 --> 01:42:43,240
this will change oh yeah and that may be

2139
01:42:51,250 --> 01:42:47,300
why when we look up at the sky we see

2140
01:42:55,180 --> 01:42:51,260
flying machines and Ezekiel saw visions

2141
01:42:59,230 --> 01:42:55,190
of God you see what I'm saying there may

2142
01:43:02,590 --> 01:42:59,240
be some shared stimulus which I would

2143
01:43:06,430 --> 01:43:02,600
see as somewhere inside us inside

2144
01:43:10,480 --> 01:43:06,440
Ezekiel that because of the external

2145
01:43:15,840 --> 01:43:10,490
culture we will conventional eyes in a

2146
01:43:21,490 --> 01:43:15,850
way different from his now if UFOs are

2147
01:43:26,830 --> 01:43:21,500
by and large internal to us what do they

2148
01:43:29,710 --> 01:43:26,840
signify that is a terrific question I

2149
01:43:31,840 --> 01:43:29,720
think it could I'll give you one very

2150
01:43:33,310 --> 01:43:31,850
first of all give you one very simple

2151
01:43:35,080 --> 01:43:33,320
example

2152
01:43:38,560 --> 01:43:35,090
and then I will suggest something much

2153
01:43:41,230 --> 01:43:38,570
more speculative and this have you have

2154
01:43:46,690 --> 01:43:41,240
you ever ever interviewed Eric Wallet on

2155
01:43:51,130 --> 01:43:46,700
this program yes oh yes okay did he talk

2156
01:43:56,950 --> 01:43:51,140
about his work with the Belgian UFO wave

2157
01:43:58,920 --> 01:43:56,960
of 1989 to 1990 it's a while since we

2158
01:44:02,260 --> 01:43:58,930
had him on the show but I believe he did

2159
01:44:04,960 --> 01:44:02,270
yeah because I think his observation on

2160
01:44:08,640 --> 01:44:04,970
there or on the Belgian sightings is

2161
01:44:12,850 --> 01:44:08,650
quite brilliant what that there was a

2162
01:44:17,200 --> 01:44:12,860
considerable wave of UFOs that were seen

2163
01:44:20,590 --> 01:44:17,210
over Belgium nowhere else in the inn in

2164
01:44:24,540 --> 01:44:20,600
the region but Belgium from the end of

2165
01:44:27,910 --> 01:44:24,550
November 1989 down through the spring of

2166
01:44:30,760 --> 01:44:27,920
1990 and although they came in many

2167
01:44:38,400 --> 01:44:30,770
different shapes and sizes the one that

2168
01:44:43,120 --> 01:44:38,410
was most common was at flying triangle

2169
01:44:46,810 --> 01:44:43,130
with three bright white lights that each

2170
01:44:51,190 --> 01:44:46,820
one of its tips and a weaker red light

2171
01:44:53,560 --> 01:44:51,200
in the middle now what Eric pointed out

2172
01:44:56,380 --> 01:44:53,570
is that where these people were able to

2173
01:44:59,040 --> 01:44:56,390
photograph these things what they got on

2174
01:45:03,340 --> 01:44:59,050
what came out on the photographic image

2175
01:45:06,460 --> 01:45:03,350
was either nothing at all or just blobs

2176
01:45:10,870 --> 01:45:06,470
of life so whatever people were seeing

2177
01:45:12,580 --> 01:45:10,880
was not there in any physical sense we

2178
01:45:15,730 --> 01:45:12,590
are going to continue this speculation

2179
01:45:19,150 --> 01:45:15,740
about UFOs and the possible sources of

2180
01:45:29,320 --> 01:45:19,160
such mysteries with David Halpern more

2181
01:45:37,770 --> 01:45:33,240
thank you for listening to GCN

2182
01:45:39,990 --> 01:45:37,780
be sure to visit GCN live.com today we

2183
01:45:43,290 --> 01:45:40,000
also have swag you know we have all

2184
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these exclusive para cast things that

2185
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you can buy we've got like I guess 60 or

2186
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so different items and entails t-shirts

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2188
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cases mouse pads the para cast jumbo

2189
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tote bag all sorts of t-shirts and

2190
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jackets and stuff like that for men and

2191
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women we have a para cast aluminum water

2192
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bottle all the stuff you go to store dot

2193
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to the power cast comm store dot the

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what makes special is that the items are

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the best quality of great t-shirts

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on them that's what makes them special

2199
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in multiple sizes and colors

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we even have stuff for children stuff

2201
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for women's stuff for men we have all

2202
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sorts of sizes like small up 2x large a

2203
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lot good stuff that's the swag from the

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2206
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I'm pharmacist Keith dr. Wallach the

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dead doctors don't lag I and myself want

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to show you a low-cost way to create

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[Applause]

2230
01:47:54,310 --> 01:47:49,970
welcome back into the para cast the gold

2231
01:48:03,140 --> 01:47:54,320
standard of paranormal radio and now

2232
01:48:04,939 --> 01:48:03,150
here's Jane Steinberg quick reminder

2233
01:48:09,350 --> 01:48:04,949
that we have a second radio show called

2234
01:48:11,900 --> 01:48:09,360
after the para cast and you can only get

2235
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a copy if you subscribe to the para cast

2236
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Plus for more information go to plus

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come where you'll learn how to subscribe

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it's a low fee starting at just a dollar

2240
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forty nine a week $4.99 a month and if

2241
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you have long term subscriptions as you

2242
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get more some freebies too we also give

2243
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you the commercial free version of this

2244
01:48:41,209 --> 01:48:37,770
show we're looking here at some of david

2245
01:48:44,660 --> 01:48:41,219
Halperin's ideas about ufos in relation

2246
01:48:47,689 --> 01:48:44,670
to a collective unconscious or his

2247
01:48:53,750 --> 01:48:47,699
mother earth sending us a message imply

2248
01:48:55,790 --> 01:48:53,760
shared yeah yeah so what are we sharing

2249
01:48:59,620 --> 01:48:55,800
here is there still some kind of

2250
01:49:02,990 --> 01:48:59,630
external mystical source or do we just

2251
01:49:05,240 --> 01:49:03,000
create our own little database here well

2252
01:49:07,310 --> 01:49:05,250
let me finish well what eric discovered

2253
01:49:10,510 --> 01:49:07,320
and this is not erich von daniken but

2254
01:49:14,979 --> 01:49:10,520
eric welat that people were seeing these

2255
01:49:17,510 --> 01:49:14,989
triangles that would not appear on

2256
01:49:18,020 --> 01:49:17,520
photographic images so what were they

2257
01:49:23,470 --> 01:49:18,030
seeing

2258
01:49:28,010 --> 01:49:23,480
well pointed Eric pointed out that the

2259
01:49:32,030 --> 01:49:28,020
November 1989 was not an uneventful time

2260
01:49:35,270 --> 01:49:32,040
in European history on November 9th the

2261
01:49:38,780 --> 01:49:35,280
Berlin Wall came down and that it was

2262
01:49:42,439 --> 01:49:38,790
clear that communism was crumbling in

2263
01:49:46,640 --> 01:49:42,449
Central and Eastern Europe so what

2264
01:49:50,720 --> 01:49:46,650
people were seeing was the dimming red

2265
01:49:55,220 --> 01:49:50,730
star the symbol of communism hemmed in

2266
01:49:57,530 --> 01:49:55,230
by three bright white stars which was

2267
01:50:02,450 --> 01:49:57,540
the symbol of NATO

2268
01:50:07,820 --> 01:50:02,460
so that people were projecting into the

2269
01:50:12,770 --> 01:50:07,830
skies what they could feel going on in

2270
01:50:16,820 --> 01:50:12,780
the culture around them and put them in

2271
01:50:19,970 --> 01:50:16,830
a form which Jung's the psychological

2272
01:50:23,870 --> 01:50:19,980
theories would lead us to expect the

2273
01:50:28,790 --> 01:50:23,880
quarter natee that is the archetype of a

2274
01:50:32,210 --> 01:50:28,800
four of which three are different one is

2275
01:50:35,600 --> 01:50:32,220
different from the other three so this

2276
01:50:38,690 --> 01:50:35,610
is what I think the Belgian UFOs were

2277
01:50:42,700 --> 01:50:38,700
conveying that is an awareness of

2278
01:50:46,520 --> 01:50:42,710
momentous changes that were going on in

2279
01:50:50,450 --> 01:50:46,530
the world in the continent around them

2280
01:50:55,160 --> 01:50:50,460
is it what all UFOs mean I don't think

2281
01:51:00,490 --> 01:50:55,170
so in the famous case of father Gill and

2282
01:51:05,680 --> 01:51:00,500
his suc lo sup sighting of flying discs

2283
01:51:10,070 --> 01:51:05,690
in 1959 I think these function as

2284
01:51:12,020 --> 01:51:10,080
symbols of reconciliation of the

2285
01:51:18,160 --> 01:51:12,030
conflict between of him and his

2286
01:51:22,730 --> 01:51:18,170
parishioners I think that most deeply

2287
01:51:27,200 --> 01:51:22,740
the UFO is a representation of the

2288
01:51:29,840 --> 01:51:27,210
ultimate alien which is death the thing

2289
01:51:33,280 --> 01:51:29,850
here I'm going to ask also here is we

2290
01:51:36,650 --> 01:51:33,290
assume the modern UFO era occurred in

2291
01:51:41,210 --> 01:51:36,660
1947 although we can find cases older

2292
01:51:45,050 --> 01:51:41,220
than that was there anything in our

2293
01:51:48,230 --> 01:51:45,060
society beyond the beginnings of the

2294
01:51:51,830 --> 01:51:48,240
Cold War and the end of world war 2 to

2295
01:51:55,490 --> 01:51:51,840
trigger the so called UFO myth on June

2296
01:51:58,520 --> 01:51:55,500
24th 1947 ok well here we're getting at

2297
01:52:02,060 --> 01:51:58,530
the big speculation ok I which I will

2298
01:52:06,080 --> 01:52:02,070
label it as such sure noon 1947 was the

2299
01:52:08,390 --> 01:52:06,090
beginning of the UFO era it was also the

2300
01:52:11,870 --> 01:52:08,400
first month in which the bulletin of the

2301
01:52:15,140 --> 01:52:11,880
Atomic Scientists began to

2302
01:52:19,100 --> 01:52:15,150
the Doomsday Clock on its cover

2303
01:52:22,580 --> 01:52:19,110
this was the ero for which in the for

2304
01:52:24,890 --> 01:52:22,590
the first time the collective death of

2305
01:52:30,710 --> 01:52:24,900
the human species

2306
01:52:34,270 --> 01:52:30,720
became a real possibility and I think

2307
01:52:38,450 --> 01:52:34,280
that this was what was reflected in the

2308
01:52:42,890 --> 01:52:38,460
coming of the UFOs and in the story that

2309
01:52:47,450 --> 01:52:42,900
was later told about this period which

2310
01:52:50,240 --> 01:52:47,460
is the Roswell story of which if you

2311
01:52:54,830 --> 01:52:50,250
think about it the essential theme of

2312
01:52:57,170 --> 01:52:54,840
Roswell is death of course we also have

2313
01:53:00,140 --> 01:52:57,180
the contactee movement where they came

2314
01:53:04,460 --> 01:53:00,150
here to tell us that et was warm and

2315
01:53:08,510 --> 01:53:04,470
fuzzy and wanted everyone to live in

2316
01:53:12,350 --> 01:53:08,520
peace with Brotherhood yeah that was the

2317
01:53:15,320 --> 01:53:12,360
opposite yeah but I think you can have

2318
01:53:19,120 --> 01:53:15,330
what one of the things myth will do is

2319
01:53:22,520 --> 01:53:19,130
confronted with an overwhelming stimulus

2320
01:53:26,410 --> 01:53:22,530
come up with opposite reactions to it

2321
01:53:32,540 --> 01:53:26,420
one is to acknowledge the reality of

2322
01:53:38,150 --> 01:53:32,550
death as at Roswell child humanity like

2323
01:53:43,240 --> 01:53:38,160
Icarus tries to zoom into the heights

2324
01:53:47,510 --> 01:53:43,250
and crashes to permanent extinction and

2325
01:53:50,660 --> 01:53:47,520
then the other is the comforting

2326
01:53:54,590 --> 01:53:50,670
reaction against this the comforting

2327
01:53:57,370 --> 01:53:54,600
response to say okay the space brothers

2328
01:54:01,310 --> 01:53:57,380
are here looking out for you

2329
01:54:03,620 --> 01:54:01,320
now with the contactees are we assuming

2330
01:54:07,220 --> 01:54:03,630
here that maybe they had at the core of

2331
01:54:09,860 --> 01:54:07,230
at least some of them a real experience

2332
01:54:13,700 --> 01:54:09,870
of some sort whereas others just made it

2333
01:54:16,850 --> 01:54:13,710
all up I have no idea at all I have no

2334
01:54:20,600 --> 01:54:16,860
idea at all I know that young turk Orfeo

2335
01:54:22,820 --> 01:54:20,610
and genichi very seriously i must say

2336
01:54:25,280 --> 01:54:22,830
that when I read on GOG secret of the

2337
01:54:29,080 --> 01:54:25,290
saucers I was not quite as

2338
01:54:32,740 --> 01:54:29,090
as young was but I do find myself

2339
01:54:35,720 --> 01:54:32,750
haunted by little questions as to why

2340
01:54:39,740 --> 01:54:35,730
why these things would occur to a man

2341
01:54:42,980 --> 01:54:39,750
named or FAO Angelo Chi that the second

2342
01:54:46,280 --> 01:54:42,990
part of his his last name connects him

2343
01:54:48,680 --> 01:54:46,290
with angels and Orfeo connects him with

2344
01:54:52,220 --> 01:54:48,690
Orpheus the man coming back from the

2345
01:54:55,040 --> 01:54:52,230
dead so I don't know I think there may

2346
01:55:00,050 --> 01:54:55,050
have been more to the contactees than

2347
01:55:02,480 --> 01:55:00,060
met the eye so is it here that at least

2348
01:55:05,120 --> 01:55:02,490
some contact thieves they have an

2349
01:55:08,300 --> 01:55:05,130
experience they get their 15 minutes of

2350
01:55:11,230 --> 01:55:08,310
fame and now they 130 minutes of fame so

2351
01:55:15,170 --> 01:55:11,240
rather than just tell the same story

2352
01:55:17,270 --> 01:55:15,180
they have expectant followers who want

2353
01:55:21,440 --> 01:55:17,280
to hear more and so they invent new

2354
01:55:24,380 --> 01:55:21,450
stories I wouldn't rule it out I mean I

2355
01:55:27,770 --> 01:55:24,390
think that that perhaps Angelou Qi who

2356
01:55:30,560 --> 01:55:27,780
at least the the the ultra cynical long

2357
01:55:33,260 --> 01:55:30,570
John Neville speaks of always being

2358
01:55:35,870 --> 01:55:33,270
impressed with on jumuchi sincerity I

2359
01:55:38,420 --> 01:55:35,880
think he's probably going to be in a

2360
01:55:41,270 --> 01:55:38,430
different category from George Adamski

2361
01:55:43,600 --> 01:55:41,280
who was always struck me as a huckster

2362
01:55:47,630 --> 01:55:43,610
from beginning to end

2363
01:55:49,580 --> 01:55:47,640
do you think any other contactees might

2364
01:55:51,170 --> 01:55:49,590
have had a genuine experience let me

2365
01:55:54,230 --> 01:55:51,180
just give you one story that you've

2366
01:55:56,540 --> 01:55:54,240
probably heard before and goes back to a

2367
01:55:59,600 --> 01:55:56,550
meeting that Jim Mosley and I had back

2368
01:56:01,910 --> 01:55:59,610
in the mid-60s with Howard bender and

2369
01:56:04,460 --> 01:56:01,920
manager was often referred to as the

2370
01:56:06,620 --> 01:56:04,470
Jersey Adamski because he met similar

2371
01:56:08,330 --> 01:56:06,630
types of people except instead of

2372
01:56:11,270 --> 01:56:08,340
photographs he'd give you paintings he

2373
01:56:14,900 --> 01:56:11,280
was a sign painter and then we met him

2374
01:56:17,120 --> 01:56:14,910
for lunch across the street from Jim's

2375
01:56:18,800 --> 01:56:17,130
office at 303 Fifth Avenue I've told the

2376
01:56:20,330 --> 01:56:18,810
story in the power cast before so you

2377
01:56:20,720 --> 01:56:20,340
can skip past it if you don't want to

2378
01:56:23,530 --> 01:56:20,730
hear it

2379
01:56:26,530 --> 01:56:23,540
we're managers says there that he thinks

2380
01:56:30,800 --> 01:56:26,540
he was part of some kind of government

2381
01:56:32,690 --> 01:56:30,810
experiment to test reactions to

2382
01:56:35,480 --> 01:56:32,700
different events it was staged for his

2383
01:56:36,860 --> 01:56:35,490
benefit and that's not an unknown theory

2384
01:56:41,060 --> 01:56:36,870
what do you think

2385
01:56:43,820 --> 01:56:41,070
I have no idea I have no idea the only

2386
01:56:46,540 --> 01:56:43,830
thing that I could say is that that

2387
01:56:49,820 --> 01:56:46,550
would suggest that there was some

2388
01:56:50,900 --> 01:56:49,830
genuine experience he had would that

2389
01:56:53,270 --> 01:56:50,910
seem so to you

2390
01:56:55,670 --> 01:56:53,280
well in this case here we're talking

2391
01:56:58,790 --> 01:56:55,680
about something that as far as he was

2392
01:57:01,550 --> 01:56:58,800
concerned was genuine but was staged for

2393
01:57:04,190 --> 01:57:01,560
him by the government where was the

2394
01:57:06,590 --> 01:57:04,200
government involved for example in early

2395
01:57:09,890 --> 01:57:06,600
UFO research and I'll bring Roswell up

2396
01:57:12,620 --> 01:57:09,900
as an example there's obviously the book

2397
01:57:14,930 --> 01:57:12,630
from Nick Redfern called body-snatchers

2398
01:57:18,340 --> 01:57:14,940
in the desert speaking of a failed

2399
01:57:21,920 --> 01:57:18,350
experiment human experiment that

2400
01:57:25,220 --> 01:57:21,930
generated the Roswell myth we've got

2401
01:57:26,840 --> 01:57:25,230
more to come about now possible sourcing

2402
01:57:29,480 --> 01:57:26,850
of the flying saucer mystery and more

2403
01:57:37,169 --> 01:57:29,490
with David Halpern I'm Jean Steinberg

2404
01:57:41,410 --> 01:57:39,669
attack of the rock AIDS has been

2405
01:57:43,390 --> 01:57:41,420
well-received by critics and readers

2406
01:57:46,180 --> 01:57:43,400
alike it's a thrill a minute story

2407
01:57:48,520 --> 01:57:46,190
you'll never forget a former US military

2408
01:57:50,800 --> 01:57:48,530
intelligence officer is haunted by

2409
01:57:53,439 --> 01:57:50,810
intense dreams about a beautiful woman

2410
01:57:56,169 --> 01:57:53,449
pleading for his help after a terrible

2411
01:57:58,300 --> 01:57:56,179
battle in outer space but the dreams

2412
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turn out to be true and thrust him into

2413
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a telepathic love affair with a woman

2414
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whose faraway planet is intent on

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destroying the earth and now the

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2450
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2455
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2456
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2460
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if you drink three or more alcoholic

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drinks every day to learn more visit

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fda.gov slash OTC pain info a message

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from the US Department of Health and

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Anderson telling you about Jordan

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2500
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2501
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02:01:35,800 --> 02:01:34,700
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02:01:43,930 --> 02:01:41,870
or go to GCN team.com we'd like to hear

2505
02:01:46,390 --> 02:01:43,940
from you if you have a comment or

2506
02:01:50,470 --> 02:01:46,400
question about the para cast sent it to

2507
02:01:52,410 --> 02:01:50,480
news at the para cast com that's news at

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02:01:54,240 --> 02:01:52,420
the para cast dot-com

2509
02:01:57,690 --> 02:01:54,250
and don't forget to visit our famous

2510
02:02:02,280 --> 02:01:57,700
para cast community forums at forum dot

2511
02:02:03,690 --> 02:02:02,290
the para cast comm we have David Halpern

2512
02:02:05,280 --> 02:02:03,700
for a couple more segments actually

2513
02:02:07,470 --> 02:02:05,290
three more segments and we're

2514
02:02:09,090 --> 02:02:07,480
speculating here so what is your

2515
02:02:12,180 --> 02:02:09,100
perception about that do you think that

2516
02:02:14,460 --> 02:02:12,190
maybe the government had some early

2517
02:02:18,120 --> 02:02:14,470
involvement in ufo-related

2518
02:02:23,160 --> 02:02:18,130
episodes I always tend to be skeptical

2519
02:02:27,330 --> 02:02:23,170
of such assumptions my my sense is that

2520
02:02:34,230 --> 02:02:27,340
the government has known a great deal

2521
02:02:37,200 --> 02:02:34,240
less than most of us assume I don't know

2522
02:02:41,220 --> 02:02:37,210
that these latest revelations about the

2523
02:02:44,700 --> 02:02:41,230
secret Pentagon UFO project really

2524
02:02:48,510 --> 02:02:44,710
change that although they do suggest

2525
02:02:52,620 --> 02:02:48,520
that there were at least people in the

2526
02:02:56,070 --> 02:02:52,630
government who took ufos more seriously

2527
02:02:59,300 --> 02:02:56,080
and wanted to know more about them then

2528
02:03:02,780 --> 02:02:59,310
were generally were generally told I

2529
02:03:06,120 --> 02:03:02,790
have to say I really cannot answer that

2530
02:03:08,910 --> 02:03:06,130
what about things like UFO abductions is

2531
02:03:13,700 --> 02:03:08,920
that a collective unconscious experience

2532
02:03:18,030 --> 02:03:13,710
something personal I sleep paralysis

2533
02:03:19,860 --> 02:03:18,040
yeah sleep paralysis may play a role I

2534
02:03:22,530 --> 02:03:19,870
don't know that it explains too much

2535
02:03:25,740 --> 02:03:22,540
since we'd have to explain the imagery

2536
02:03:27,240 --> 02:03:25,750
what has struck me it seems to me

2537
02:03:32,370 --> 02:03:27,250
there's a number of different elements

2538
02:03:37,050 --> 02:03:32,380
in this first of all there is certainly

2539
02:03:44,100 --> 02:03:37,060
an element of sexual trauma that the

2540
02:03:48,810 --> 02:03:44,110
abductees report being violated by their

2541
02:03:52,890 --> 02:03:48,820
captors in ways that suggest sexual

2542
02:03:57,510 --> 02:03:52,900
abuse and in at least one case you can

2543
02:04:00,750 --> 02:03:57,520
see a woman who remembers a fishing trip

2544
02:04:04,560 --> 02:04:00,760
with her father in which she's pretty

2545
02:04:06,450 --> 02:04:04,570
sure her father raped her then regressed

2546
02:04:08,550 --> 02:04:06,460
by the late but Hopkin

2547
02:04:11,730 --> 02:04:08,560
she remembers that it was really a

2548
02:04:14,310 --> 02:04:11,740
Lian's raped her while her father stood

2549
02:04:16,770 --> 02:04:14,320
watching and then the next morning she's

2550
02:04:18,840 --> 02:04:16,780
not so sure she really thinks it was her

2551
02:04:20,790 --> 02:04:18,850
father who did it something apparently

2552
02:04:24,060 --> 02:04:20,800
happened she came back from that trip

2553
02:04:26,340 --> 02:04:24,070
with blood in her underpants my own

2554
02:04:29,850 --> 02:04:26,350
reading of that was that her father

2555
02:04:35,540 --> 02:04:29,860
indeed raped her and she came up with

2556
02:04:40,020 --> 02:04:35,550
the of the abduction pseudo memory as a

2557
02:04:41,670 --> 02:04:40,030
way of expressing that but I think

2558
02:04:44,630 --> 02:04:41,680
there's more it strikes me as

2559
02:04:47,700 --> 02:04:44,640
significant that we can trace back the

2560
02:04:51,480 --> 02:04:47,710
UFO abduction tradition to an

2561
02:04:56,340 --> 02:04:51,490
interracial couple of whom at least the

2562
02:04:59,490 --> 02:04:56,350
man the black man Barney ill when his

2563
02:05:01,410 --> 02:04:59,500
memories began to surface was so

2564
02:05:03,570 --> 02:05:01,420
frightened he thought he with it that

2565
02:05:05,070 --> 02:05:03,580
the psychiatrist who was hypnotizing him

2566
02:05:07,860 --> 02:05:05,080
thought he was going to throw himself

2567
02:05:11,040 --> 02:05:07,870
out the window and if you compare what

2568
02:05:14,970 --> 02:05:11,050
Barney Hill experienced what is that the

2569
02:05:17,580 --> 02:05:14,980
core of the UFO abduction it sounds very

2570
02:05:20,550 --> 02:05:17,590
much like the abductions that Barney

2571
02:05:25,230 --> 02:05:20,560
Hills ancestors would have experienced

2572
02:05:27,990 --> 02:05:25,240
in Africa being abducted in the middle

2573
02:05:33,090 --> 02:05:28,000
of the night taken aboard an alien ship

2574
02:05:36,780 --> 02:05:33,100
and given medicals what seemed like

2575
02:05:40,400 --> 02:05:36,790
medical examinations so I think that

2576
02:05:43,920 --> 02:05:40,410
something of the historical trauma the

2577
02:05:47,370 --> 02:05:43,930
african-american trauma is playing a

2578
02:05:50,850 --> 02:05:47,380
role in the abductions and finally I

2579
02:05:54,590 --> 02:05:50,860
think there is something more that's

2580
02:05:57,720 --> 02:05:54,600
much more ancient that it's playing into

2581
02:06:00,360 --> 02:05:57,730
and here perhaps we're moving into Erich

2582
02:06:03,090 --> 02:06:00,370
von Daniken's territory except I don't

2583
02:06:06,000 --> 02:06:03,100
think it's real aliens the there was an

2584
02:06:09,540 --> 02:06:06,010
ancient form of Jewish mysticism called

2585
02:06:14,730 --> 02:06:09,550
the Merkava mysticism in which people

2586
02:06:19,590 --> 02:06:14,740
underwent journeys toward the chariot

2587
02:06:24,120 --> 02:06:19,600
and their experiences of these journeys

2588
02:06:28,490 --> 02:06:24,130
reminds me very much of the process of

2589
02:06:30,390 --> 02:06:28,500
hypnotic regression of abductees and

2590
02:06:32,280 --> 02:06:30,400
finally I don't know do you know the

2591
02:06:36,900 --> 02:06:32,290
whole business with the Freddy annika

2592
02:06:41,480 --> 02:06:36,910
mask and whitley strieber would you tell

2593
02:06:45,360 --> 02:06:41,490
our listeners about this okay that in

2594
02:06:49,380 --> 02:06:45,370
1987 whitley strieber his book communion

2595
02:06:52,320 --> 02:06:49,390
was published and on that cover on the

2596
02:06:56,100 --> 02:06:52,330
cover of communion was the face that we

2597
02:06:58,740 --> 02:06:56,110
always associate with the UFO alien or

2598
02:07:02,460 --> 02:06:58,750
at least we do since that book was

2599
02:07:05,940 --> 02:07:02,470
published it was unknown before 1987 a

2600
02:07:12,090 --> 02:07:05,950
kind of light bulb shaped face with

2601
02:07:16,110 --> 02:07:12,100
enormous jet black oval eyes now in

2602
02:07:19,920 --> 02:07:16,120
ninth in the mid-1950s archaeologists

2603
02:07:24,350 --> 02:07:19,930
found in what's now Kosovo an ancient

2604
02:07:29,430 --> 02:07:24,360
sculptures which has a face almost

2605
02:07:32,300 --> 02:07:29,440
identical to that now I think Erik could

2606
02:07:35,310 --> 02:07:32,310
point to this erich von daniken as

2607
02:07:37,490 --> 02:07:35,320
evidence for his views of ancient

2608
02:07:42,560 --> 02:07:37,500
astronauts like that there were

2609
02:07:46,200 --> 02:07:42,570
extraterrestrials visiting Kosovo in

2610
02:07:50,580 --> 02:07:46,210
some 6,000 years ago but I really don't

2611
02:07:54,750 --> 02:07:50,590
think so because this face fits quite

2612
02:07:58,820 --> 02:07:54,760
smoothly into the evolution of the

2613
02:08:03,260 --> 02:07:58,830
prehistoric art of that time and place

2614
02:08:07,140 --> 02:08:03,270
so how are we to explain the resemblance

2615
02:08:09,270 --> 02:08:07,150
one possible explanation is that the

2616
02:08:14,210 --> 02:08:09,280
artist who painted the picture at

2617
02:08:18,420 --> 02:08:14,220
Whitley streamer's Direction had seen

2618
02:08:20,340 --> 02:08:18,430
photos of the credi annika head as it's

2619
02:08:26,000 --> 02:08:20,350
called that was the place where it's

2620
02:08:29,310 --> 02:08:26,010
found and was using that as a model I

2621
02:08:32,400 --> 02:08:29,320
also think it's possible he was doing

2622
02:08:33,570 --> 02:08:32,410
that because there is something in that

2623
02:08:38,370 --> 02:08:33,580
face

2624
02:08:42,570 --> 02:08:38,380
that resonates to our psyche and it is a

2625
02:08:46,950 --> 02:08:42,580
fact that thousands upon thousands of

2626
02:08:50,150 --> 02:08:46,960
people seeing that face on the cover of

2627
02:08:52,940 --> 02:08:50,160
communion remembered that they'd

2628
02:08:56,700 --> 02:08:52,950
experiencing it before that they'd

2629
02:09:00,360 --> 02:08:56,710
experience something involving that is

2630
02:09:03,990 --> 02:09:00,370
this then in part of racial memory or

2631
02:09:06,270 --> 02:09:04,000
call it collective memory yeah we'll all

2632
02:09:10,260 --> 02:09:06,280
roads lead back to you except where they

2633
02:09:12,270 --> 02:09:10,270
lead to Freud well I kind of think here

2634
02:09:15,030 --> 02:09:12,280
it's fair to say that Whitley Strieber

2635
02:09:18,540 --> 02:09:15,040
had an experience that was deeply

2636
02:09:21,990 --> 02:09:18,550
psychological oh yeah I wouldn't rule

2637
02:09:24,810 --> 02:09:22,000
that out for a moment I think that if

2638
02:09:28,200 --> 02:09:24,820
you look at the hypnotic regressions he

2639
02:09:30,720 --> 02:09:28,210
quotes in his book it's clear that there

2640
02:09:33,660 --> 02:09:30,730
is some sexual abuse behind that and

2641
02:09:37,200 --> 02:09:33,670
that that's personal but is it possible

2642
02:09:41,790 --> 02:09:37,210
there's more than that that he's

2643
02:09:46,010 --> 02:09:41,800
plugging in to something much wider just

2644
02:09:48,800 --> 02:09:46,020
as Barney Hill with what I think was his

2645
02:09:53,040 --> 02:09:48,810
reenactment of the historical

2646
02:09:56,580 --> 02:09:53,050
african-american trauma of slavery was

2647
02:09:59,910 --> 02:09:56,590
plugging in to something bigger than

2648
02:10:03,060 --> 02:09:59,920
what and wider I think that's what UFOs

2649
02:10:05,310 --> 02:10:03,070
are something bigger than Y and wider

2650
02:10:08,070 --> 02:10:05,320
and that's why I think they're a myth

2651
02:10:09,330 --> 02:10:08,080
and that's why I think they're real I'm

2652
02:10:11,940 --> 02:10:09,340
gonna ask you a few other questions

2653
02:10:14,370 --> 02:10:11,950
about UFOs and possible origins in our

2654
02:10:17,370 --> 02:10:14,380
next segment we're talking to David

2655
02:10:20,070 --> 02:10:17,380
Halperin UFO researcher biblical scholar

2656
02:10:27,800 --> 02:10:20,080
and a lot more I'm Jean Steinberg you're

2657
02:10:27,810 --> 02:10:32,780
thank you for listening to GCN

2658
02:10:41,540 --> 02:10:38,360
visit GP and live.com today anytime

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02:10:43,760 --> 02:10:41,550
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connect up hi this is Sophie Winnick

2738
02:13:43,850 --> 02:13:41,970
longtime distributor and user of

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2740
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everything else in my life including my

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burner thankfully life is getting back

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to normal now but the one thing I never

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had to worry about was my business and

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my monthly commission I've been a

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distributor for youngevity for over 17

2748
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years since before it was youngevity and

2749
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I've got to say the most amazing thing

2750
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about this company is the people while

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my family was in crisis other

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distributors stepped in and helped my

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customers simply because that's what

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youngevity people do even for people

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about getting rich it was about a

2757
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product I could stand behind a company I

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could count on and a monthly commission

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2760
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in 17 years youngevity is truly a

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2762
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have too much to do I'm Sophie Winnick

2763
02:14:35,480 --> 02:14:32,820
I'm just like you I have a real life

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[Music]

2766
02:14:48,209 --> 02:14:46,290
this is Micah Hanks to the graylien

2767
02:14:50,279 --> 02:14:48,219
report and you're listening to the para

2768
02:14:51,000 --> 02:14:50,289
cast the gold standard of paranormal

2769
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radio

2770
02:15:04,030 --> 02:14:59,200
[Music]

2771
02:15:08,320 --> 02:15:04,040
once again Chris O'Brien is preparing or

2772
02:15:10,690 --> 02:15:08,330
already on his journey back east long

2773
02:15:11,320 --> 02:15:10,700
trip and he'll tell us about it when it

2774
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gets there

2775
02:15:16,950 --> 02:15:13,510
we're going to be talking to

2776
02:15:20,050 --> 02:15:16,960
Pennsylvania UFO and cryptozoological

2777
02:15:22,510 --> 02:15:20,060
researcher Stan Gordon next week we have

2778
02:15:25,840 --> 02:15:22,520
David Halpern joining us now do you

2779
02:15:28,840 --> 02:15:25,850
think David at all that there is the

2780
02:15:31,660 --> 02:15:28,850
possibility that at least some UFOs

2781
02:15:35,950 --> 02:15:31,670
represent visitors from other planets

2782
02:15:39,190 --> 02:15:35,960
physical visitors no no I don't think

2783
02:15:41,350 --> 02:15:39,200
they do I don't think they do I mean

2784
02:15:43,920 --> 02:15:41,360
give them one test look at the you for

2785
02:15:47,530 --> 02:15:43,930
North's the people violet the UFOs

2786
02:15:50,950 --> 02:15:47,540
nowadays we envision them as having

2787
02:15:54,700 --> 02:15:50,960
those huge scree Burress guys because

2788
02:15:56,580 --> 02:15:54,710
streamer or Ted Jacobs who painted the

2789
02:16:01,050 --> 02:15:56,590
feather the cover first Reaper

2790
02:16:05,170 --> 02:16:01,060
introduced that image before it that

2791
02:16:07,420 --> 02:16:05,180
that image doesn't occur at all if we're

2792
02:16:10,480 --> 02:16:07,430
dealing with real visitors we'd expect

2793
02:16:11,830 --> 02:16:10,490
more consistency over time you see

2794
02:16:14,500 --> 02:16:11,840
that's the thing that bothers me about

2795
02:16:16,600 --> 02:16:14,510
UFOs too that we have so many different

2796
02:16:18,370 --> 02:16:16,610
varieties and of course the common

2797
02:16:21,090 --> 02:16:18,380
theory is well we're not being visited

2798
02:16:23,760 --> 02:16:21,100
by one race we're being visited by many

2799
02:16:27,520 --> 02:16:23,770
maybe you know we're the the

2800
02:16:32,140 --> 02:16:27,530
intermediary stopover between here and

2801
02:16:34,000 --> 02:16:32,150
wherever they're going or that it's kind

2802
02:16:37,180 --> 02:16:34,010
of like we have lots of models of cars

2803
02:16:39,240 --> 02:16:37,190
and trucks different models but some are

2804
02:16:43,180 --> 02:16:39,250
so diametrically different

2805
02:16:46,750 --> 02:16:43,190
you never know Plus again they take on

2806
02:16:48,490 --> 02:16:46,760
the cultural meme of the time and how

2807
02:16:52,270 --> 02:16:48,500
would they do that if they're if they're

2808
02:16:54,600 --> 02:16:52,280
real visitors I mean you you you know

2809
02:16:58,540 --> 02:16:54,610
the story of Antonio biast falls from

2810
02:17:01,510 --> 02:16:58,550
1957 that he was taken aboard a UFO have

2811
02:17:05,320 --> 02:17:01,520
seduced after eight by a gorgeous woman

2812
02:17:07,690 --> 02:17:05,330
on it I mean it's a great story and by

2813
02:17:10,870 --> 02:17:07,700
all indications he really believed that

2814
02:17:13,129 --> 02:17:10,880
it happened to him but how come nobody

2815
02:17:17,040 --> 02:17:13,139
else has

2816
02:17:19,019 --> 02:17:17,050
well you think if we had consistent

2817
02:17:23,419 --> 02:17:19,029
visitors we would but then again as you

2818
02:17:27,299 --> 02:17:23,429
say the variety of UFO cases is

2819
02:17:29,339 --> 02:17:27,309
something that is troubling and also the

2820
02:17:31,950 --> 02:17:29,349
ubiquity I would think here that if

2821
02:17:34,160 --> 02:17:31,960
alien visitors were coming here and they

2822
02:17:36,870 --> 02:17:34,170
wanted to take soil samples or something

2823
02:17:38,280 --> 02:17:36,880
why would they just be flying around all

2824
02:17:41,849 --> 02:17:38,290
the time wouldn't they just do their

2825
02:17:43,559 --> 02:17:41,859
thing and leave yeah yeah and I mean you

2826
02:17:45,450 --> 02:17:43,569
remember when we were kids though with

2827
02:17:48,030 --> 02:17:45,460
the everybody was predicting there would

2828
02:17:50,639 --> 02:17:48,040
be some great epiphany within a few

2829
02:17:52,530 --> 02:17:50,649
years which made sense either they'd

2830
02:17:56,580 --> 02:17:52,540
invade or they'd make contact or

2831
02:18:00,149 --> 02:17:56,590
something now 50 years of Paris and the

2832
02:18:03,110 --> 02:18:00,159
world hasn't changed at all I mean it's

2833
02:18:06,809 --> 02:18:03,120
changed but not through intervention of

2834
02:18:11,000 --> 02:18:06,819
UFO beings which to me points to

2835
02:18:14,969 --> 02:18:11,010
something because that is consistent

2836
02:18:18,540 --> 02:18:14,979
within us that keeps emerging in

2837
02:18:21,929 --> 02:18:18,550
different forms after communion was

2838
02:18:27,620 --> 02:18:21,939
published in 1987 yeah the communion

2839
02:18:31,229 --> 02:18:27,630
alien he becomes what people see and

2840
02:18:33,870 --> 02:18:31,239
experience and I'm saying the word see

2841
02:18:36,000 --> 02:18:33,880
and experience very deliberately not

2842
02:18:38,820 --> 02:18:36,010
that they make it up and I'm I'm not

2843
02:18:41,189 --> 02:18:38,830
using the word imagine I keep thinking

2844
02:18:42,330 --> 02:18:41,199
of what a librarian I met in Western

2845
02:18:45,000 --> 02:18:42,340
North Carolina

2846
02:18:48,030 --> 02:18:45,010
several years ago told me she was

2847
02:18:50,099 --> 02:18:48,040
talking about the UFO aliens she would

2848
02:18:52,259 --> 02:18:50,109
see on her front lawn through her

2849
02:18:53,070 --> 02:18:52,269
through the windows of her house when

2850
02:18:56,129 --> 02:18:53,080
she was a kid

2851
02:19:00,719 --> 02:18:56,139
and she said to me I know they weren't

2852
02:19:03,269 --> 02:19:00,729
really there but I did see them and I

2853
02:19:07,919 --> 02:19:03,279
believe both parts of her statement and

2854
02:19:11,189 --> 02:19:07,929
I want to understand how both parts of

2855
02:19:14,370 --> 02:19:11,199
it are true let me ask you then about

2856
02:19:15,990 --> 02:19:14,380
physical trace evidence and we've had

2857
02:19:18,509 --> 02:19:16,000
that explored by people like Ted

2858
02:19:20,939 --> 02:19:18,519
Phillips over the years do we assume

2859
02:19:22,919 --> 02:19:20,949
there is any physical trace evidence or

2860
02:19:25,429 --> 02:19:22,929
that's just something conventional that

2861
02:19:28,620 --> 02:19:25,439
has been applied to a UFO case

2862
02:19:31,349 --> 02:19:28,630
well I'd have to say there isn't any to

2863
02:19:36,870 --> 02:19:31,359
be consistent but then if you ask me

2864
02:19:39,000 --> 02:19:36,880
what happened at Socorro in 1964 or what

2865
02:19:43,860 --> 02:19:39,010
happened at Delphis Kansas when was that

2866
02:19:47,190 --> 02:19:43,870
night 1978 then I don't know I can give

2867
02:19:49,380 --> 02:19:47,200
you any good answers you see that's why

2868
02:19:52,019 --> 02:19:49,390
I raised that that's why I raised it

2869
02:19:55,440 --> 02:19:52,029
I was kinda I was kind of afraid you

2870
02:19:58,370 --> 02:19:55,450
might raise it it really is a I hate to

2871
02:20:01,969 --> 02:19:58,380
use the cliche a fly in my ointment I

2872
02:20:04,950 --> 02:20:01,979
have to assume there will be some

2873
02:20:08,849 --> 02:20:04,960
resolution there is some resolution of

2874
02:20:10,889 --> 02:20:08,859
these things that we can't think of the

2875
02:20:12,929 --> 02:20:10,899
evidence against there they're being

2876
02:20:16,139 --> 02:20:12,939
they're being sought that they're being

2877
02:20:18,360 --> 02:20:16,149
actual space physical vehicles seems to

2878
02:20:23,370 --> 02:20:18,370
me so overwhelming but there are these

2879
02:20:26,639 --> 02:20:23,380
cases that are really troubling also UFO

2880
02:20:30,300 --> 02:20:26,649
photographs are all them conventional or

2881
02:20:34,550 --> 02:20:30,310
fakes or have things been captured on

2882
02:20:37,170 --> 02:20:34,560
film or digital sources that are strange

2883
02:20:39,570 --> 02:20:37,180
yeah I mean isn't that a two-edged sword

2884
02:20:41,160 --> 02:20:39,580
the skeptics use that I think and in

2885
02:20:43,740 --> 02:20:41,170
this case I guess I would consider

2886
02:20:46,800 --> 02:20:43,750
myself a skeptic they'll use it to great

2887
02:20:49,620 --> 02:20:46,810
effect by saying that with our you know

2888
02:20:53,219 --> 02:20:49,630
our telephones that function as cameras

2889
02:20:55,889 --> 02:20:53,229
all that all the the ways we can record

2890
02:20:58,769 --> 02:20:55,899
things surely we'd have some really

2891
02:21:01,769 --> 02:20:58,779
impressive UFO photos by now which we

2892
02:21:04,260 --> 02:21:01,779
don't and I think that's a really good

2893
02:21:06,540 --> 02:21:04,270
argument but if you ask me what was

2894
02:21:10,230 --> 02:21:06,550
photographed that McMinnville Oregon in

2895
02:21:14,099 --> 02:21:10,240
1950 I don't know I suppose I would have

2896
02:21:16,139 --> 02:21:14,109
to say it was it it has to be a fake but

2897
02:21:19,590 --> 02:21:16,149
it doesn't seem like the people Paul

2898
02:21:23,370 --> 02:21:19,600
Trent and his wife were hoaxsters so I

2899
02:21:25,710 --> 02:21:23,380
don't know what's going on there because

2900
02:21:28,110 --> 02:21:25,720
again if these things are just innocence

2901
02:21:31,139 --> 02:21:28,120
fantasies personal fantasies

2902
02:21:33,570 --> 02:21:31,149
there should be no physical effect there

2903
02:21:36,300 --> 02:21:33,580
should be no trace evidence

2904
02:21:39,240 --> 02:21:36,310
there should be no photographs

2905
02:21:42,300 --> 02:21:39,250
there should be no radar contacts there

2906
02:21:46,530 --> 02:21:42,310
should be no simultaneous visual and

2907
02:21:49,170 --> 02:21:46,540
radar events such as Washington DC in

2908
02:21:51,960 --> 02:21:49,180
1952 yeah

2909
02:21:54,330 --> 02:21:51,970
the radar doesn't trouble me that much

2910
02:21:57,149 --> 02:21:54,340
I'll tell you why because we also have

2911
02:22:00,750 --> 02:21:57,159
cases where there are radar blips and

2912
02:22:02,790 --> 02:22:00,760
nobody sees anything and where people

2913
02:22:06,929 --> 02:22:02,800
see something and they don't appear on

2914
02:22:10,979 --> 02:22:06,939
radar so I'd be prepared to say that at

2915
02:22:14,670 --> 02:22:10,989
some in some cases by coincidence false

2916
02:22:18,030 --> 02:22:14,680
radar echoes intersect closely enough

2917
02:22:23,880 --> 02:22:18,040
with visual observation as to create the

2918
02:22:29,420 --> 02:22:23,890
illusion of reality I understand that

2919
02:22:32,160 --> 02:22:29,430
perfectly well and it's obviously

2920
02:22:35,160 --> 02:22:32,170
leaving us with a mystery on our hands

2921
02:22:36,630 --> 02:22:35,170
here I also notice here and I don't know

2922
02:22:39,719 --> 02:22:36,640
if you want to bring this up I guess we

2923
02:22:43,050 --> 02:22:39,729
could bring it up there has been other

2924
02:22:45,679 --> 02:22:43,060
theories about UFO abductions and

2925
02:22:51,599 --> 02:22:45,689
near-death experiences having

2926
02:22:52,590 --> 02:22:51,609
commonalities yeah now how would that be

2927
02:22:54,389 --> 02:22:52,600
I mean if you have a near-death

2928
02:22:58,170 --> 02:22:54,399
experience we assume that all right

2929
02:23:00,809 --> 02:22:58,180
there's a temporary clinical death for

2930
02:23:03,719 --> 02:23:00,819
whatever reason the heart stops beating

2931
02:23:06,149 --> 02:23:03,729
for whatever reason for a short time and

2932
02:23:08,880 --> 02:23:06,159
you come back and you remember something

2933
02:23:12,599 --> 02:23:08,890
how would that relate to a UFO abduction

2934
02:23:15,899 --> 02:23:12,609
I think that the intersection is the

2935
02:23:20,309 --> 02:23:15,909
memory that you have a memory of

2936
02:23:24,179 --> 02:23:20,319
something of enormous significance that

2937
02:23:28,950 --> 02:23:24,189
you believe befell you now Kenneth ring

2938
02:23:31,139 --> 02:23:28,960
has pointed to a correlate between both

2939
02:23:34,189 --> 02:23:31,149
near-death experiences and UFO

2940
02:23:37,859 --> 02:23:34,199
abductions and childhood sexual abuse

2941
02:23:41,149 --> 02:23:37,869
which i think is significant and I think

2942
02:23:47,399 --> 02:23:41,159
also this would play into my hunch that

2943
02:23:51,090 --> 02:23:47,409
death is a fundamental element in what

2944
02:23:53,500 --> 02:23:51,100
UFOs mean to us

2945
02:23:56,710 --> 02:23:53,510
all right we're gonna ask you the

2946
02:23:59,380 --> 02:23:56,720
obvious question how so in our final

2947
02:24:01,210 --> 02:23:59,390
segment with David Halperin and he's

2948
02:24:05,590 --> 02:24:01,220
somebody I've known for a couple hundred

2949
02:24:08,200 --> 02:24:05,600
years now you think oh oh yeah you know

2950
02:24:10,300 --> 02:24:08,210
thousands of years millions you never

2951
02:24:12,940 --> 02:24:10,310
know or possibly you know we don't know

2952
02:24:15,520 --> 02:24:12,950
what life is and maybe our souls have

2953
02:24:21,190 --> 02:24:15,530
interacted and debated UFOs before

2954
02:24:33,150 --> 02:24:28,740
[Music]

2955
02:24:36,761 --> 02:24:33,160
thank you for listening to GCS visit GC

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as you know neighbors web-hosting can be

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pretty cheap but not all hosting is the

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same dream host wins best of awards year

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that's check Naik out calm

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slash host first game attack of the

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Rockets and it was a critically

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acclaimed success and now there's the

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coming of the protectors a former

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military intelligence man is contacted

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by a space woman in a dream a dream that

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turns out to be a nightmare because evil

2973
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forces on our distant planet are

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planning to conquer the earth

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this is gripping science fiction of the

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classic kind attack of the rock codes

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and the coming of the protectors find

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out more at rockets calm that's rock oh

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it's our Ock oids calm one out of four

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people listening to my voice right now

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could die from heart disease this could

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be your last year and you don't even

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know it because you don't know the early

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warning signs if you think you're safe

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because your cholesterol levels are

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normal

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think again because studies show that

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75% of heart attack patients also had

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normal cholesterol levels let me

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this is ugly are you listening to the

3066
02:28:57,599 --> 02:28:50,080
podcast the gold standard of paranormal

3067
02:29:01,679 --> 02:28:57,609
radio the question of David Halperin was

3068
02:29:04,469 --> 02:29:01,689
how so how so one of um phones and my

3069
02:29:08,700 --> 02:29:04,479
answer would be that death is the

3070
02:29:13,439 --> 02:29:08,710
ultimate alien but also our most

3071
02:29:18,330 --> 02:29:13,449
intimate companion we our death is born

3072
02:29:20,820 --> 02:29:18,340
with us it's programmed into us from the

3073
02:29:25,830 --> 02:29:20,830
first day of our lives

3074
02:29:30,800 --> 02:29:25,840
and yet it's the ultimate alien by which

3075
02:29:34,519 --> 02:29:30,810
we become possibly nothing at all

3076
02:29:39,990 --> 02:29:34,529
possibly something so unimaginably

3077
02:29:44,040 --> 02:29:40,000
different from what we are now that we

3078
02:29:49,710 --> 02:29:44,050
cannot imagine it's unimaginable so what

3079
02:29:54,389 --> 02:29:49,720
better way to represent that death that

3080
02:29:59,040 --> 02:29:54,399
invades us that penetrates us as then

3081
02:30:03,359 --> 02:29:59,050
through alien vehicles coming into our

3082
02:30:06,420 --> 02:30:03,369
skies alien let's instead of vehicles

3083
02:30:09,960 --> 02:30:06,430
that's tested to mechanical let's say

3084
02:30:14,460 --> 02:30:09,970
alien entities coming into our skies

3085
02:30:16,320 --> 02:30:14,470
what about ghosts what about well

3086
02:30:19,500 --> 02:30:16,330
certainly there that's taking us close

3087
02:30:22,080 --> 02:30:19,510
to the image of death but in a way not

3088
02:30:24,320 --> 02:30:22,090
because what is a goal I mean a ghost my

3089
02:30:28,109 --> 02:30:24,330
ghost is really me

3090
02:30:32,189 --> 02:30:28,119
transparent okay it's like the idea that

3091
02:30:37,290 --> 02:30:32,199
I keep on in something like my current

3092
02:30:41,910 --> 02:30:37,300
form so that I might be recognizable but

3093
02:30:47,849 --> 02:30:41,920
the UFO is utterly different utterly

3094
02:30:52,040 --> 02:30:47,859
other from what we know so I think it is

3095
02:30:54,420 --> 02:30:52,050
even better suited than the ghost I

3096
02:30:56,180 --> 02:30:54,430
won't say even better suited better

3097
02:31:03,200 --> 02:30:56,190
suited than the ghost

3098
02:31:06,060 --> 02:31:03,210
to convey our our perception of death

3099
02:31:08,370 --> 02:31:06,070
so does it give us a place where we

3100
02:31:12,150 --> 02:31:08,380
think we can go if it's not heaven it

3101
02:31:21,650 --> 02:31:12,160
could be another planet I don't think it

3102
02:31:34,320 --> 02:31:27,830
imaginary tactile sense of a reality

3103
02:31:36,330 --> 02:31:34,330
that is too enormous for us to absorb do

3104
02:31:39,719 --> 02:31:36,340
you really understand you're going to

3105
02:31:42,570 --> 02:31:39,729
die I think people might understand it

3106
02:31:47,070 --> 02:31:42,580
academically as a concept but not

3107
02:31:50,990 --> 02:31:47,080
directly unless yearly close how are you

3108
02:31:55,680 --> 02:31:51,000
going to understand the incomprehensible

3109
02:31:59,150 --> 02:31:55,690
accept through myth which brings me back

3110
02:32:03,230 --> 02:31:59,160
to my statement which I know sounded

3111
02:32:09,860 --> 02:32:03,240
paradoxical that UFOs are a myth and

3112
02:32:14,510 --> 02:32:09,870
UFOs are real myth is what enables us to

3113
02:32:20,130 --> 02:32:14,520
get some sort of an emotional intuitive

3114
02:32:23,160 --> 02:32:20,140
handle on the incomprehensible let me

3115
02:32:25,440 --> 02:32:23,170
ask you here also we talk about

3116
02:32:27,360 --> 02:32:25,450
government involvement in UFO research

3117
02:32:29,219 --> 02:32:27,370
and I know you had an opinion about

3118
02:32:32,040 --> 02:32:29,229
Barney and Betty Hill of course they

3119
02:32:34,710 --> 02:32:32,050
also had friends in the military they

3120
02:32:36,810 --> 02:32:34,720
were residing near military base and I

3121
02:32:40,310 --> 02:32:36,820
thought if they wanted to have some kind

3122
02:32:44,430 --> 02:32:40,320
of mind-control experiment this

3123
02:32:46,500 --> 02:32:44,440
interracial couple would be subject do

3124
02:32:50,340 --> 02:32:46,510
you think our government knows anything

3125
02:32:53,280 --> 02:32:50,350
about UFOs other than well we have no

3126
02:32:54,900 --> 02:32:53,290
answers as a practical physical level my

3127
02:32:58,380 --> 02:32:54,910
guess is that our government knows

3128
02:33:00,390 --> 02:32:58,390
absolutely nothing so is that why they

3129
02:33:01,830 --> 02:33:00,400
so readily dismiss it because they don't

3130
02:33:04,710 --> 02:33:01,840
want to say hey we don't know what those

3131
02:33:09,270 --> 02:33:04,720
things are or just the factual thing is

3132
02:33:10,011 --> 02:33:09,280
that UFOs do not represent a threat yeah

3133
02:33:12,501 --> 02:33:10,021
that's the only

3134
02:33:14,711 --> 02:33:12,511
question they need to answer and I think

3135
02:33:17,541 --> 02:33:14,721
they've answered it quite correctly that

3136
02:33:20,121 --> 02:33:17,551
after they they've been saying for 60

3137
02:33:23,180 --> 02:33:20,131
years the UFOs are no threat to our

3138
02:33:25,400 --> 02:33:23,190
national security and now it's 2018 and

3139
02:33:28,251 --> 02:33:25,410
lo and behold they have not been a

3140
02:33:30,320 --> 02:33:28,261
threat to our national security so I

3141
02:33:33,320 --> 02:33:30,330
think from the government's very narrow

3142
02:33:35,331 --> 02:33:33,330
perspective they were absolutely right

3143
02:33:38,600 --> 02:33:35,341
and that and they're there they're right

3144
02:33:40,671 --> 02:33:38,610
not to care well do you think then that

3145
02:33:43,701 --> 02:33:40,681
all those stories about possible

3146
02:33:46,850 --> 02:33:43,711
disinformation and such like that are

3147
02:33:49,701 --> 02:33:46,860
just made up or do we have rogue

3148
02:33:52,581 --> 02:33:49,711
elements in the military doing things

3149
02:33:54,680 --> 02:33:52,591
again for some kind of private reason or

3150
02:33:57,470 --> 02:33:54,690
some reason in terms of testing the

3151
02:34:00,201 --> 02:33:57,480
public's reaction to something I don't

3152
02:34:02,991 --> 02:34:00,211
know I mean I would not have predicted

3153
02:34:06,741 --> 02:34:03,001
what appeared in the New York Times in

3154
02:34:08,900 --> 02:34:06,751
December about the Pentagon UFO project

3155
02:34:10,341 --> 02:34:08,910
I would not have predicted by the way

3156
02:34:13,421 --> 02:34:10,351
that the New York Times would give

3157
02:34:16,820 --> 02:34:13,431
front-page coverage there's such a thing

3158
02:34:18,801 --> 02:34:16,830
what do you think that signifies I'm

3159
02:34:21,440 --> 02:34:18,811
sorry to sound like a broken record but

3160
02:34:23,690 --> 02:34:21,450
I don't know I just find it incredibly

3161
02:34:26,301 --> 02:34:23,700
weird I mean did you read those articles

3162
02:34:29,030 --> 02:34:26,311
in The Times I sure did I know one of

3163
02:34:32,480 --> 02:34:29,040
the writers Leslie can she's been on the

3164
02:34:35,860 --> 02:34:32,490
show several times right now how come

3165
02:34:39,711 --> 02:34:35,870
how does she get a byline in The Times I

3166
02:34:42,261 --> 02:34:39,721
think she knew somebody there yes yep I

3167
02:34:45,310 --> 02:34:42,271
mean put Ralph Blumenthal was another of

3168
02:34:48,051 --> 02:34:45,320
the author's see she made the contact

3169
02:34:50,810 --> 02:34:48,061
Blumenthal but it still strikes me as so

3170
02:34:55,991 --> 02:34:50,820
remarkable that a newspaper should make

3171
02:35:00,201 --> 02:34:56,001
an honorary correspondent out of a

3172
02:35:03,501 --> 02:35:00,211
prominent UFO that to me is actually the

3173
02:35:06,980 --> 02:35:03,511
most interesting aspect of the story why

3174
02:35:09,831 --> 02:35:06,990
the times I did as it did well she does

3175
02:35:13,671 --> 02:35:09,841
have a background in print journalism so

3176
02:35:16,161 --> 02:35:13,681
it may be partly that possibly also

3177
02:35:20,150 --> 02:35:16,171
remember she's friendly with John

3178
02:35:21,600 --> 02:35:20,160
Podesta former Clinton aide yeah which

3179
02:35:26,150 --> 02:35:21,610
opens

3180
02:35:28,860 --> 02:35:26,160
a whole new can of worms in what way

3181
02:35:33,470 --> 02:35:28,870
well it struck me and I think I'm

3182
02:35:38,280 --> 02:35:33,480
oversimplifying here but that the

3183
02:35:43,011 --> 02:35:38,290
liberal Eastern media home Donald Trump

3184
02:35:47,091 --> 02:35:43,021
has such contempt for were the ones that

3185
02:35:51,120 --> 02:35:47,101
broke this story and dealt with it

3186
02:35:53,671 --> 02:35:51,130
respectfully I've seen some discussions

3187
02:35:59,190 --> 02:35:53,681
of it on Fox News in which the whole

3188
02:36:00,961 --> 02:35:59,200
idea of UFOs is mocked now I don't want

3189
02:36:04,320 --> 02:36:00,971
to push this too far because I've also

3190
02:36:07,680 --> 02:36:04,330
seen on Fox News a respectful interview

3191
02:36:10,711 --> 02:36:07,690
with Leslie King the one I saw was with

3192
02:36:12,600 --> 02:36:10,721
Tucker Carlson and he was somebody I

3193
02:36:17,791 --> 02:36:12,610
would expect to be totally disrespectful

3194
02:36:20,011 --> 02:36:17,801
to her yeah well the other stuff I've

3195
02:36:24,720 --> 02:36:20,021
seen on Fox News just made fun of the

3196
02:36:29,220 --> 02:36:24,730
whole the whole subject so is there some

3197
02:36:33,120 --> 02:36:29,230
political is in some ways are UFOs which

3198
02:36:37,230 --> 02:36:33,130
can be a vehicle for so much as they

3199
02:36:41,940 --> 02:36:37,240
were in Belgium in 1989 are they now

3200
02:36:44,990 --> 02:36:41,950
becoming the vehicle for the terrible

3201
02:36:50,341 --> 02:36:45,000
political splits that we're now

3202
02:36:52,881 --> 02:36:50,351
experiencing I know your speculation no

3203
02:36:56,310 --> 02:36:52,891
just say one thing before we wrap it up

3204
02:36:58,320 --> 02:36:56,320
during one of the press briefings with

3205
02:36:59,370 --> 02:36:58,330
the press secretary of the White House

3206
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Sarah

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Huckabee Sanders she was asked what

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Donald Trump felt about this and she

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02:37:10,081 --> 02:37:07,120
said frankly she hadn't asked him she

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would and of course we know when she

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02:37:14,160 --> 02:37:12,221
says that that will never be a follow-up

3212
02:37:16,350 --> 02:37:14,170
David Halperin if anyone wants to know

3213
02:37:23,870 --> 02:37:16,360
more about the things you do where do

3214
02:37:28,711 --> 02:37:23,880
they contact you ww David Halperin net I

3215
02:37:32,190 --> 02:37:28,721
have a website I have a blog I have a

3216
02:37:35,620 --> 02:37:32,200
contact page I would be very glad to

3217
02:37:38,080 --> 02:37:35,630
hear from any listeners to the parent

3218
02:37:42,011 --> 02:37:38,090
you can reach char on Chris O'Brien at

3219
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our strange planet calm you can find the

3220
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3222
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and a community take your choice

3223
02:37:57,070 --> 02:37:53,630
don't forget our second radio show after

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02:38:00,190 --> 02:37:57,080
the power cast it is wrap-up show

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02:38:03,250 --> 02:38:00,200
special interviews you never know what

3226
02:38:05,860 --> 02:38:03,260
to expect next and you can only get it

3227
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3229
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3230
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3231
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3232
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02:38:28,600 --> 02:38:25,790
even better than he could possibly sound

3234
02:38:31,870 --> 02:38:28,610
otherwise how about that more

3235
02:38:35,020 --> 02:38:31,880
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3236
02:38:38,350 --> 02:38:35,030
the para cast com next week Stan Gordon

3237
02:38:40,870 --> 02:38:38,360
joins us David Halpern thank you so much

3238
02:38:43,750 --> 02:38:40,880
for teaching us so much about so many

3239
02:38:53,790 --> 02:38:43,760
things on the power kiss thank you for

3240
02:39:00,190 --> 02:38:57,310
the para cast featuring gene Steinberg

3241
02:39:03,210 --> 02:39:00,200
and Christopher O'Brien is a copyrighted

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02:39:07,120 --> 02:39:03,220
presentation of making the impossible